It's a (British) dogs life

[Cruddles]

To set the scene, I'm originally from Australia and my wife is from London, and we live in the South East of England. We have two children under 5. My wife has always talked about getting a dog one day.

A few weeks ago we moved into our forever home, part of it is a fairly decent size garden, would be about 20m long by 8m wide. Also there's a large garage at the rear of the garden, and a utility room in the house accessable from the side.

When the discussion of having a dog comes up it seems my wife and i have very differing views of how it's managed. Growing up in Australia we always had a dog. It would live in the garden and provided with a kennel. At night we would put the dog in the garage with a basket with blankets in it. The dog would be allowed in the house when the family was at home, but there would be strict rules about where in the house it could go, bedrooms were definitely a no no. The dog would be walked 3-5 times a week, weather dependent, and it never travelled in the car anywhere.

My wife's experience of having a dog is it lives inside with the family, including sleeping on beds. It would remain inside if everyone was out, letting it out in the garden was just for going to the toilet or having a play. It would be walked two times a day, no matter the weather, and would often go in the car with them to places.

I believe that our house provides the kind of set to i had in Australia for keeping dogs, and I'd be happy to get an appropriate dog now. My wife insists that the "Australian" way is cruel for the UK as Australia "is always hot" so dogs can live outside. This is utter jibberish and my wife partly says it tongue in cheek, but she insists the "British" way is the only way to keep a dog. I would be happy to set up an area in the garage or the utility room that the dog could access that would have heating for the really cold days as a compromise, but this isn't enough.

If it is the "British" way i don't think i ever want a dog. I already have two children, i don't want a hairy, slobbering third one.

So my question is, is my wife correct? Does everyone else keep dogs the "British" way and I'm cruel, or is she over the top?

My only experience of dogs in Australia is Bouncer from Neighbours and he was definitely well loved and kept inside.

FWIW, I dislike dogs and would never get one but your way of having a dog does seem kind of cruel.

Your wife is the only real dog lover here. Lovely dogs are usually going to be part of the family, which mean, sharing the home in all ways.
Unless you are a farmer, or cattle rancher ! who might have working dogs,who sleep in a barn etc, there shouldn't be that many rules made for the dog, except to train it well, for good behaviour. Dogs love company, many long walks and jumping on beds ha ha.

I grew up in a farming family where our (working) dogs were kennelled outside for most of the year but it’s blindingly obvious to me that it isn’t appropriate for pet dogs

I now have 2 pet dogs which are working breeds, and they live inside
They don’t get the run of the house all the time but they come upstairs when invited and are happy, loved and their natural behaviours are respected.

Walking a dog 3-5 times a week isn’t on. Chasing a ball until they collapse from exhaustion isn’t a substitute for a walk and snuffle and a chance to say hello to other dogs and work on their socialisation skills

I have lived all over the world I've never known family dogs be kept outside and even working dogs were inside with the family at night

C yuck I
I. I

You have raised an interesting question.

What's more cruel:

Treating a dog like a human and dressing them in silly coats and whatnot
Basically Anthropomorphosing the poor dog.

Or a dog being treated like a dog.
Lots of fresh air, but shelter when needed. Fair but firm. (Dogs are pack animals and enjoy knowing their place) And giving them some dignity by not dressing them like hairy people.

I expect somewhere inbetween is best.

[quote Greenrubber]@Snoken

Ohh dear I read that as 3-5 times per day!!

Fuck sake[/quote]
I thought you might have.

I dont think your way is cruel.
If the dog is in the home and part of the family while you are all there and only in their, warm, comfortable space in a garage when you go out and at night, where is the cruelty in that?
The current trend for keeping dogs shut in tiny crates seems cruel to me.

Dogs in the UK definitely need to be walked nore than 3 times a week.
I'm assuming the majority of gardens are very big in Australia, so the dogs have more room to run around.
If this is the case, the OP isn't necessarily being cruel by only walkng 3 times a week
In the UK wirh our smaller gardens, a dog needs to be walked at least twice a day.

People don't spend as much time outdoors here (damp crappy weather) so leaving your dog outside is confining them to a life of isolation and loneliness.
You should think of it from the dogs pov - s/he will be happiest and feel most secure with its pack/family.

@Cruddles our dog is from a working farm in Wales and it’s a similar set up to your experience, also a friends farm in Scotland.

But in general houses, inc ours the dog has full access to the house, goes on holiday with us, dog walkers and sleeps in our room at night! Although not all allow upstairs in the home.

@curiouscatgotkilled

I dont think your way is cruel. If the dog is in the home and part of the family while you are all there and only in their, warm, comfortable space in a garage when you go out and at night, where is the cruelty in that? The current trend for keeping dogs shut in tiny crates seems cruel to me.

Yes, Keeping your dog in a crate all day long while the owners are at work could be seen as cruel.

My dad is from NZ and had a very similar idea about dogs, or perhaps even further, with them being “working dogs” that sleep outside, aren’t allowed on furniture etc. When they did get a dog he slept inside in the kitchen (due to weather and also foxes) and was allowed on the sofa but not in bedrooms/upstairs. That was the compromise they made but 🤷🏻‍♀️ YMMV. Good luck!

I know of a family in England who keep their dogs as you describe out in a kennel, occasionally allowed in the house but woundn't be allowed upstairs etc...

However, the emphasis is on dogS, not dog. They keep 3-4 dogs at any one time, so they don't get lonely. The dogs seem happy.

I'm not sure how often they walk them, but I know they have a very big garden for the dogs to run around in.

Also, depending on the breed of dog you get I think you can get away with one walk a day. Small/lazier dog breeds don't need walking twice a day.

I also agree it's MUCH more cruel to keep a dog crated all day rather than giving them a mice space outside in a big kennel. If they have shelter when it rains I don't think it's a big deal.

My neighbors growing up used to keep their dogs in an outdoor kennel at night. They had a few dogs and they were allowed in the house (downstairs only!) and garden in the day and were in the kennel with pen at night. Occasionally the pen would be open and they would run around the garden barking all night.
We did think it was a bit mean at the time as we were used to our family dog who slept inside, but it didn’t seem that crazy. I do imagine it’s more common amongst working dogs in the UK. But I do think attitudes in the UK have changed over the past few generations where dogs are now seen as basically a/another child, where the dog goes everywhere with the family and has clothes etc. Maybe attitudes in Australia are just different and lots don’t see them as another child like we seem to! I did have an Australian relative visiting pre pandemic who was shocked that dogs were allowed in a cafe we were in!

I have many friends in Australia who have dogs and give them the lifestyle your wife has described so I don't think this is a British/Australian divide. The way you describe sounds like a set up for a working dog. Did you live on a farm?
Most people get a dog because they want a pet, something to love and make a fuss of and treat like part of the family. If your dog just lives outside what's the point of it?

The only dog I know who slept outdoors here was a Newfie who had a kennel (shed, large!!) and the run of the (huge) garden once he was an adult. He came in during the day but was far happier outside as he often got too hot inside, bless him. Very loved family pet, but his size and breed meant he needed space.

@Toomuchtodoo pack theory is very much outdated and simplistic.

My sister and husband have had dogs in Australia for years and wouldn’t dream of keeping a dog in the garden -it’s a family pet.If it’s a working dog or perhaps a husky type that prefers outdoor kennelling then that’s different! My Niece lives in Alice Springs-and their dog lives indoors
Please don’t get a dog!

I’m in NZ but my understanding of a dog’s life is much more in line with your wife’s. In fact mine have just snuck up to put their head on the pillow. 😅

The joy of a UK holiday is taking our dogs for muddy walks where they have fun. Going to the pub with them and giving treats.

We have a working border collie for the sheep and his set up is very much like what you describe.

He sleeps out in the garden in an insulated kennel (with heat pad in winter), has the run of the garden but only comes inside when we are at home.

He is currently snoozing under the table in the living room. He's not allowed to go into bedrooms etc. But then he runs with sheep and he doesn't always smell that great!

A pet dog is different to a working dog tho!

Dogs are part of the family! Mine never slept on beds (utility room is a better option) but during the day having the ru of the house and going on trips with the family is normal, you can even get pet passports

@Toomuchtodoo

You have raised an interesting question.

What's more cruel:

Treating a dog like a human and dressing them in silly coats and whatnot
Basically Anthropomorphosing the poor dog.

Or a dog being treated like a dog.
Lots of fresh air, but shelter when needed. Fair but firm. (Dogs are pack animals and enjoy knowing their place) And giving them some dignity by not dressing them like hairy people.

I expect somewhere inbetween is best.

I'm not sure you understand dog behaviour enough to be commenting. Dogs don't "enjoy knowing their place" (dominance & pack theory has been thoroughly debunked) and whilst dressing them up is silly (and possibly uncomfortable depending on the outfit), they don't have any concept of dignity.

You've also left out the fact that OP's way includes only 3-5 walks per week, which is nowhere near enough for virtually any young or adult dog.

I’ve only experienced your way of keeping dogs in Australia as how you would keep working dogs with multiple dogs. With a single pet dog they would always be inside, breed dependent requiring up to 2 hours walking per day. They don’t have to sleep on your bed but would at least have a dog bed in the kitchen or utility room inside the main house. You should both be aligned on this before you get a dog. Your wife is the one that wants a dog and in her head she is imagining the British pet dog dream, so it doesn’t really make sense for you to fulfil her dog wish but not actually have the reality look anything like what she is imagining? I think you’ll need to be the one to compromise here. Either that or don’t get a dog! I would have left DP if he didn’t want a dog though