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Please help me understand my daughter

70 replies

SupervisorAlert666 · 05/08/2021 09:01

NC for this because this is very personal.
I am more than prepared to be told I need to change the way I parent, but please be kind.
DD has recently turned 14. She is a lovely kid. Her primary years were reasonably smooth. She did well in school with little effort.
Once in secondary school, things changed a bit. The level of effort required to achieve the same results did not come naturally to her. Instead of trying harder, she kind of gave up. She still achieves reasonably well in the subjects she likes, but does not put any effort on the hard ones. She really doesn't put any effort on anything at all to be honest. Then she will feel crap about herself and feel really down because other people do really well. When we point out 'but you did not revise/work/practice', she gets stroppy, moody and goes off in a huff.

She takes flute lessons at school, she has done for many years. We pay for the lessons but had to accept a long time ago that she was going to do nothing between lessons, no practice whatsoever. Despite setting up practice schedules, threats that we would stop the lessons , etc, in the end we accepted that she would attend the lessons because she was so insistent, and just leave her to it.

She feels she is bigger than her friends (admittedly she is), but point blank refuses to exercise, ever. She will happily spend whole days sitting in her room, with the nintendo, the phone....

She is a really intelligent girl, yet, doesn't seem to accept cause and effect.

Two years ago she went through a very tough period and there was self harm. We tried everything we could think of to support her. She reluctantly agreed to see a counsellor, but after one or two sessions she would say she did not want to return, didn't find it helpful... this happened with 3 different counsellors. We also paid privately and was suggested that she might have inattentive adhd. We might pursue this, it is interesting to know that even if she doesn't get a diagnosis she clearly had some of the traits and that she can't help some of her behaviours, but DH and I are at a loss as to how to best support her.

We have tried co-creating schedule after schedule where the first 2 hours of the day there's an expectation of one chore, room tidy and exercise, in exchange for the rest of the day belonging to her completely. This goes well the first couple of days and then becomes another battle.

We have tried leaving her to her own devices completely, hoping that in time she would find it within herself to get her act together, but after a while, the outcome of this is that she does nothing, eats sugar and other crap, her room becomes a pigsty, there's piles of dirty laundry including soiled underwear under her pillow, under her bed, etc...

We have offered so many things. Recently she said she wanted a makeover for her room to keep it a bit more uncluttered. DH and I called a decorator and she now has a brand new room that it is slowly getting in a state.

I am dreading september when she starts in Y10 because I don't know how she is going to cope with the level of work. I just don't know what kind of parent to be for her. I have asked her so many times, what do you need, how do you want me to be, but we never get anywhere.

It is clear she has very low self-esteem but again, she seems to sabotage herself time and time again, we have offered clubs, lessons, support... she rejects everything. Things turn into a battle very quickly. DH and/or I will approach her for a chat about something we feel is not going in the right direction (e.g. her procrastinating for three hours after school achieving absolutely nothing), but she turns moody very quickly and refuses to engage.

I understand that maybe she just needs to mature and build her confidence and self esteem and that we need to give her time and space to do that, but I am worried that whilst that's happening, time in passing by and not doing well in her subjects (mostly science related ones) will be like a heavy weight for her to find her confidence.

I am asking for other parents in similar situations, how do you support your teenage daughters, is there a book I could read? Any strategies? I so want her to be happy.

OP posts:
Galassia · 05/08/2021 09:18

You sound lovely and caring but also indulging and spoiling.

Everything you have done is great and many a child would have responded well to such love and care.

But there are some children of which your daughter may be one who no matter what you do for them will silently reject all the good things and carry in their path of self destruction.

Sound to me that more boundaries should be set, less tolerance of bad and messy behaviour and some tough love.

Justmuddlingalong · 05/08/2021 09:23

It sounds like you're panicking and trying everything and anything. I would leave her to it. Shut the bedroom door on the mess, cancel after school activities that she's not engaging with and let her take some responsibility.

lavenderandwisteria · 05/08/2021 09:23

I would unashamedly approach this with financial motivation, to be honest. I know some are strongly against this and believe that excellent results / a tidy room / playing the flute are in themselves a reward but many teens just aren’t quite mature enough for that sort of long term thinking.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

ThePlantsitter · 05/08/2021 09:28

I don't have a 14 year old, but I was this 14 year old. I was depressed.

SupervisorAlert666 · 05/08/2021 10:07

@ThePlantsitter, thank you. I am sorry to hear that. What helped you? DD has already been assessed and yes, some low mood, anxiety, lack of confidence and lack of self-esteem have all been mentioned. We have tried getting her counselling, she has started some and then quit. Don't know what else to do.

OP posts:
Sarahlou63 · 05/08/2021 10:12

It might not help her (although I'd encourage her to read it) but this book will help you figure out what's going on.

Lunariagal · 05/08/2021 10:18

I do have to say that I was similar as a teenager and I had terrible self esteem, and possible depression.

ThePontiacBandit · 05/08/2021 10:19

I was like this. I found life as a teenager so tough. It turns out I am actually Autistic. I’m much happier since I was diagnosed. It sounds like she’s still really struggling with her self-esteem. Have you considered counselling?

Lunariagal · 05/08/2021 10:20

Just to add, as an adult, my life has changed immeasurably since I dealt with my own esteem issues. It's like a switch has been flicked. This might be your starting point.

steppemum · 05/08/2021 10:34

My dd2 is 14 and it has not been an easy ride and I feel for you OP. Mine is dc3, so we have some experience of teens, and the most encouraging thing I can say, is that 13/14 is the low point! They tend to improve as they get older!

But several things we do which I think would help you.
Have some lines in the sand. Stick to those, and let lots and lots of other things go. Pick your battles. really, really, decide what matters.
Mine are:
-everyone eats meals at the dinner table together (and they eat healthy food then, even if they eat crap in between) I don't stock the cupboards with crap, so if they want crap, they have to buy it.
-once a week dirty dishes and laundry sweep (them not me) and basically if dirty dishes don't come down then they are banned from taking food upstairs.
-I only wash clothes that are in the laundry basket, I have done this since they were small, and along with that they are expected to get their clothes for tomorrow out the night before, so if they need pe kit and discover it is dirty, there is time to do a quick wash. if I have gone to bed, they are welcome to do a quick wash themselves, but if not, then tough, they take it in dirty, and face the consequences.
I do help this by doing the laundry sweep, so I go round on Saturday morning and give them 30 minutes notice to get their washing in the laundry basket.
-all electronics downstairs overnight, we also have a wifi block so dd's wifi switches off at 10 pm. This caused massive meltdowns, but I am so glad we did it (older ones, just accepted they had to have phones downstairs, dd2 battled it every single night)
-school work is between them and school, if it isn't done, they get detention, and then have to do it in detention. I am always there for help if needed, but they are responsible for it.

But above all, tell her and show her you love her 10 times a day. Teenagers take every neutral comment as negative. You have to over compensate. I tell mine 'have a good day, I love you' every morning as they leave for school, even if they stomp out and slam the door.
Knowing they are loved will get them through a lot.

steppemum · 05/08/2021 10:36

sorry that was long.
We also think dd2 has undiagnosed ASD or ADHD and her self esteem is low.
It is hard.

ThePlantsitter · 05/08/2021 10:37

I wish I had a magic cure for you but I don't - I can tell you how I would approach it as a parent based on my experience but of course it isn't tried and tested, only my opinion.

First off in my case my family was fucked up in a way that only really came to light later on and I now believe that I was actually taking the brunt of most of the secrecy and dysfunction resulting from that - I'm not saying that's the case for you but I suggest you ask yourself very honestly if there could be an element of that.

Secondly I know that she seems to be a problem but if you can find ways to stop her feeling like that it might help. It's very obvious from your post that you love her unconditionally but she may not feel that if the focus is always on what is wrong about her. Lots of love bombing, hugs, telling her she's beautiful, telling her you love her whatever she does etc.

Thirdly maybe family counselling would help you all communicate and she might then feel you're a team rather than her being a problem. That doesn't mean your family is a problem but any help in communicating with a 14 year old is useful, right??

sillysmiles · 05/08/2021 10:41

In terms of the work load for school for next year - is there any after school study session run in her school? Any school I know that has this - it is silent/ no messing and it will help her focus on getting school work done in school as everyone else in the room will be doing it.

steppemum · 05/08/2021 10:41

Secondly I know that she seems to be a problem but if you can find ways to stop her feeling like that it might help. It's very obvious from your post that you love her unconditionally but she may not feel that if the focus is always on what is wrong about her. Lots of love bombing, hugs, telling her she's beautiful, telling her you love her whatever she does etc.

yes this in bucketloads. Tell her all the positive things about her, like a constant drip feed, all the time. Enjoy spending time with her, let her see that you want her company (even if she rejects you)

sillysmiles · 05/08/2021 10:42

In terms of exercise - what exercise does she enjoy? Will she go out for a cycle/walk with you/her DF?
Has exercise been part of her life as a child? As a family?

Hedgepogg · 05/08/2021 10:43

Cripes this actually sounds like me when I was that age! I sailed through primary school- found lessons easy, read through the school library in infants and didn't have to put much effort into anything. Instead of bring pushed further I was just left to it which is understandable, but when I got to secondary and things ramped up I struggled. I'd never had to learn how to learn (if that makes sense), and whereas I found that my friends often had subjects they excelled in, I was sort of mediocre in all. It was hard to deal with emotionally as well as it was new to me, I hadn't learnt that it's okay to find x hard, or to ask for help and support. I largely gave up, on reflection I think someone saying it's okay to find it hard, what in particular is it that you're struggling with, let's go back to basics would have maybe helped. I had loads of pressure on myself and from others and it was hard (managed to get good GCSEs in the end).

Also was overweight compared to my friends, I'd spend hours squirrled away in my room, absorbed in games, books, and later on the Internet although it was basic then so can see the lure of scrolling for hours as an escape even more appealing now. I didn't clean my room because I had no energy or motivation to do so, I didn't have much self respect for who I was (which I find sad now), and would hide food wrappers everywhere and just fester really. I had a hobby that I loved, but it was always used as a if you don't do y you can't go, so I just stopped going. I used to self farm but only really cosmetically, at the time it wasn't for attention, but looking back maybe subconsciously it was.

As an adult I had therapy as anxiety was definitely becoming more evident, and there were a lot of things to unpick. It helped my binge eating and my life is completely different now.

Have you asked her what's wrong without being judgemental? I wouldn't rule out a diagnosis, some can manifest exactly like this, of course it could just be her being lazy and getting to grips with changing hormones; but it seems quite extreme and consuming.

lljkk · 05/08/2021 10:45

She sounds so normal, OP.

My first thought is for you to try to find fun things you can do with her. That tends to involve spending money. Feeding them Chips or pizza with teens, but maybe you can park somewhere free for a longer walk to the shops & restaurant (make it a combined errand) or a bit of thrill seeking (amusement parks you both enjoy, waterpark, etc)

Also ask for her help with quick little things, ask for her opinion, invite her opinion. Give her chance to feel useful. Ask her to help you find something good to watch on telly & watch it together. Try to make this spontaneous not structured. You're building social bonds.

Has she ever enjoyed any sport or physical activity?
Do you have any family habits she would join in with that are also active (like dog-walking or house ogling* )?

*don't laugh, my parents did this. Would literally walk or drive around naice neighbourhoods in bit cities out-loud admiring lovely houses.

Queenfreak · 05/08/2021 10:46

Has anyone mentioned ASD to you?
You are describing me to a T. I was late diagnosed with autism, I'm working with an autism charity to put systems in place to help myself.

Queenfreak · 05/08/2021 10:49

I also like @lljkk approach. It's bonding, positive and very low demands.
If something is planned in advance I find myself in a fight or flight response and avoid the task asch as possible. Even if its something I know I would enjoy

RandomMess · 05/08/2021 10:50

A lot like my DD with ADD (just diagnosed) she is a "doer" happy to be out doing stuff with others but will do nothing at home - school work or hobbies.

For her self esteem I would find her some activities to join that she enjoys. Facilitate time with her friends.

Bythemillpond · 05/08/2021 10:55

You are describing me at 14. (Although no electronics as they weren’t around)
I was just diagnosed ADHD. Scored 9/9 on both inattentive and the hyper active.

I think what you need to take on board is that the effort to do normal things like chores or homework is 1000 times harder.
Something that is interesting and you will get someone who works the hardest you have ever seen. Till they get bored.

Definitely pursue testing as unmedicated my life has been a disaster.

Queenoftheflumps02 · 05/08/2021 11:07

As I was reading your post I was thinking ADD and then you said this had been mentioned. Your DD sounds so much like my DS. He is incredibly bright, but just didn't really achieve what he was capable off. He would always have the best of intentions to "try" harder, get mode organised, revise earlier etc, but it didn't happen. He would then be really disappointed with himself and so we were all trapped in a vicious cycle. My DH and I would try everything we could think off to encourage, we would have a plan, my DS would enthusiastically sign up,for it and then just couldn't follow through.

On the flip side, if he was really engaged with something he could spend hours on it and become so knowledgeable.

Life changed dramatically for him when he was diagnosed with ADD and started medication. He has said he can now pick out the important threads in his brain and it just feels like all the " white noise" has been dialled down, allowing him the brain space to concentrate on what is important at the time. His life is just so much more enjoyable, he is so much happier and is achieving so much. He's just graduated with an MEng ( distinction) and has been asked by his university to do a PhD. This was not something he thought would ever have happened when he looks back at his school career!

If you have any concerns that your DD may have ADD, I would definitely pursue it.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 05/08/2021 11:08

What sticks out for me is that you are trying so hard but what you are trying to do is change your daughter's behaviour which of course you cannot do, only she can do that.

I mean this v kindly and sincerely but therapy is wasted on teens if there's no buy in. So is pretty much everything!

However. Therapy for you, or for you and her dad, could be extremely helpful. Because how you behave will impact upon her ie. if you do things a bit differently too will she. But this is very difficult to gauge when you're in the thick of it so it's very helpful to have independent guidance.

So it may be that you step back from the helicopeyering, step up the boundaries and/or consequent and introduce monetary reward for homework, music practise, chores. Jeep it extremely black and white, no discussion (manipulation). That way she knows exactly where she's at.

Not all at once though! Just introduce them slowly.

Mostly listen to her, encourage her and tell her how much you love her especially when she's driving you nuts!

But you do need to back off a bit so she isn't burdened by your anxiety about her. She knows full well how invested you are in her and she's got herself into a pattern of pushing boundaries just because she can.

Also. It's really norm for bright achievers to flounder a bit at secondary school because they have to put in a bit of work which is something they haven't had to do previously and because they are suddenly a little fish in a big pond. So that in itself is not unusual, what she needs to learn is that only she can do anything about her grades.

Oh it is frustrating /worrying/normal... 14 is a tough age but in the big picture of life she is a bright, beautiful and adored teenager and this patch will pass.

SupervisorAlert666 · 05/08/2021 11:21

Thank you all. Genuingly finding all the input very helpful and a lot of food for thought here.

Regarding the ADD diagnosis, we can still pursue this privately. My concern is that although the parents questionnaire and my DD's questionnaire came up as quite definitely ADD, the school one very much didn't. I believe this is because she is in secondary school, and she has a different teacher for each subject, so the one random person who filled the form (pastoral lead), really wouldn't have known a lot about her behaviours, yet ironically, she would have probably known her the best. DD's teachers know that she is shy, quiet and well behaved, apart from maths where she's chatty. They don't know that inside she's constantly cringing with embarrassment, anxious about being put on the spot, and day dreaming to the point that she has no idea what's been said in lessons. Her behaviour is good, so she doesn't present any issues at school.

The other thing is she walks into things, almost like she doesn't fully appreciate the space between her and things like furniture. Nothing major, but this is something I have noticed since she was very little and I wonder if it's some form of mild dyspraxia.

OP posts:
tootiredtobother · 05/08/2021 11:30

gosh you are really up against it.
ive had similar with my daughter, but i would suggest to you, look at her diet, get some serotonin into her and iron perhaps.

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