Please help me understand my daughter

[SupervisorAlert666]

NC for this because this is very personal.
I am more than prepared to be told I need to change the way I parent, but please be kind.
DD has recently turned 14. She is a lovely kid. Her primary years were reasonably smooth. She did well in school with little effort.
Once in secondary school, things changed a bit. The level of effort required to achieve the same results did not come naturally to her. Instead of trying harder, she kind of gave up. She still achieves reasonably well in the subjects she likes, but does not put any effort on the hard ones. She really doesn't put any effort on anything at all to be honest. Then she will feel crap about herself and feel really down because other people do really well. When we point out 'but you did not revise/work/practice', she gets stroppy, moody and goes off in a huff.

She takes flute lessons at school, she has done for many years. We pay for the lessons but had to accept a long time ago that she was going to do nothing between lessons, no practice whatsoever. Despite setting up practice schedules, threats that we would stop the lessons , etc, in the end we accepted that she would attend the lessons because she was so insistent, and just leave her to it.

She feels she is bigger than her friends (admittedly she is), but point blank refuses to exercise, ever. She will happily spend whole days sitting in her room, with the nintendo, the phone....

She is a really intelligent girl, yet, doesn't seem to accept cause and effect.

Two years ago she went through a very tough period and there was self harm. We tried everything we could think of to support her. She reluctantly agreed to see a counsellor, but after one or two sessions she would say she did not want to return, didn't find it helpful... this happened with 3 different counsellors. We also paid privately and was suggested that she might have inattentive adhd. We might pursue this, it is interesting to know that even if she doesn't get a diagnosis she clearly had some of the traits and that she can't help some of her behaviours, but DH and I are at a loss as to how to best support her.

We have tried co-creating schedule after schedule where the first 2 hours of the day there's an expectation of one chore, room tidy and exercise, in exchange for the rest of the day belonging to her completely. This goes well the first couple of days and then becomes another battle.

We have tried leaving her to her own devices completely, hoping that in time she would find it within herself to get her act together, but after a while, the outcome of this is that she does nothing, eats sugar and other crap, her room becomes a pigsty, there's piles of dirty laundry including soiled underwear under her pillow, under her bed, etc...

We have offered so many things. Recently she said she wanted a makeover for her room to keep it a bit more uncluttered. DH and I called a decorator and she now has a brand new room that it is slowly getting in a state.

I am dreading september when she starts in Y10 because I don't know how she is going to cope with the level of work. I just don't know what kind of parent to be for her. I have asked her so many times, what do you need, how do you want me to be, but we never get anywhere.

It is clear she has very low self-esteem but again, she seems to sabotage herself time and time again, we have offered clubs, lessons, support... she rejects everything. Things turn into a battle very quickly. DH and/or I will approach her for a chat about something we feel is not going in the right direction (e.g. her procrastinating for three hours after school achieving absolutely nothing), but she turns moody very quickly and refuses to engage.

I understand that maybe she just needs to mature and build her confidence and self esteem and that we need to give her time and space to do that, but I am worried that whilst that's happening, time in passing by and not doing well in her subjects (mostly science related ones) will be like a heavy weight for her to find her confidence.

I am asking for other parents in similar situations, how do you support your teenage daughters, is there a book I could read? Any strategies? I so want her to be happy.

The school ADD report sounds like DDs.

She is down in the subjects she likes with teachers she likes. So it was only the other ones where she was chatty etc.

OP, my DS school did not raise any concerns either, because he was not disruptive, he was quite in class and did not cause any issues. I think people think of ADHD and think hyper, but not necessarily about inattentive as this is obviously more internal to the individual. At parents evening we were often told how bright our DS was and teachers would query why he wasn't achieving to a higher level, but not once was ADD mentioned.

You know your DD. I also have a DD and she was a typical teen and displayed normal teen behaviour, but I always knew there was something more with my DS and his behaviour was not just teen related. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the very best.

@RandomMess how do you help your DD then? Is she on medication?

dyspraxia and poor organisation skills are linked.

I was diagnosed as an adult with dyspraxia and dyslexia - looking back can see my Mum put a lot of scoffolding in to help me learn how to organise - I'm now highly orgnaised unless really stressed then it can come completely off the rails.

Tidy a room - need breaking down into smaller tasks and may well need support to start - any systems need lots of practise - visible lists of task help until internalised.

Frankly riding out any kick back to doing things is fairly important to all children - kicking off about doing something doesn't mean it doens't get done you just have less time to do what they want - mine have been learning that lesson from young age and yet they still occaionally try it on. As PP says pick your battles but have firm lines for important things that must be done.

Is she is struggling at school at 14 I'd look to getting turtors or some other kind of support in place as soon as possible espcailly for maths and english as she'll need those to get on- it may well help improve self esteem as well if she feel supported rather than constantly failing and probably not knowing why.

Also big thing my parents always did praise effort - working consistantly hard at things not results - paid off for me I did unexpectedly well with education and exams.

Pursue the ADHD assessment, OP. It does sound likely, but often shows up very differently in girls and you need an experienced practitioner who understands it well. (I have ADHD, diagnosed as an adult - I was very similar to how you described your daughter and I wish someone had cared enough to spot it then.) I'd also consider getting her some counselling or therapy. There are so many online options for this now, and if she can find someone she trusts, it might help a lot.

Pursuing similar issues with my dd age 14, only without the extreme attitude (just what I consider normal adolescence)! She desperately wants to achieve and gets upset with herself (not us) that she lacks follow through. Also walks into things. Needs lot of time and space.

We are seeing a neuropsychologist who sees straight through things like school not reporting issues and girls presenting differently. No diagnosis yet but there is definitely something up.

Also had a sensory praxis and integration assessment which showed vestibular problems which lead to clumsiness but also heightened sensitivity and anxiety. She's now having occupational therapy for it. The OT said she is seeing a LOT of girls this age because the last year has been so hard on them, and it is more apparent to parents that they aren't thriving in (or out) of in-person school.

Hope you get some answers.

DD is 14 and Is going into year 10 next month.

I have helped her get into good routines (homework is all done before dinner). I’ve sat with her and helped her through her work as she made the adjustments to secondary school (not do the work for her but printed off research and highlighted bits she can put in an essay).

The demands on kids now is quite overwhelming and sometimes they need a bit of scaffolding to get to the next level (I did used to be a teacher but with a positive and nonjudgemental attitude you can help your DD develop good study skills).

@Galassia

You sound lovely and caring but also indulging and spoiling.

Everything you have done is great and many a child would have responded well to such love and care.

But there are some children of which your daughter may be one who no matter what you do for them will silently reject all the good things and carry in their path of self destruction.

Sound to me that more boundaries should be set, less tolerance of bad and messy behaviour and some tough love.

This is a spot on answer, I think. More boundaries, more consequences. Get her out there doing chores, take away devices if she doesn't clean her room, teach her that whatever she's feeling, the whole world feels too (e.g. can't be bothered to exercise or clean room or practice or prep for exams, guess what, we all feel that way) - but others suck it up, get it done, so they can chill and feel good about themselves for making the effort, and she has reached the age where she just needs to get on with it, too.

Couldn't disagree more with the advice from @Polkadots2021 and @Galassia.

I think that you're setting kids up for the rest of their lives when you build their feelings of self-worth by showing compassion and empathy, as you are doing OP.

Polkadots2021

Exactly what my mother did to me.
It didn’t end well.

I was this 14yo and as an adult discovered I am ASD because I have this 13yo - she is ASD. Depression can sit with it because the inability to function as well as you observe others doing or to apply yourself gets you down. It takes a massive amount of hands on parenting, understanding, and enforcement of routine. I got it from my parents who were teachers (and bloody saints I tell ye) and I am not doing as well as they were. Hope you are going to be ok x

teach her that whatever she's feeling, the whole world feels too (e.g. can't be bothered to exercise or clean room or practice or prep for exams, guess what, we all feel that way) - but others suck it up, get it done, so they can chill and feel good about themselves for making the effort

But the whole world doesn’t feel like that.
I know when I have had to do something like cleaning up I don’t feel great when it is done.
I feel exhausted and mentally broken and uncomfortable in my own home.

@SupervisorAlert666 she started on medication the start of June after she finished school.

She says it makes her feel calmer and more able to focus. I guess we will have a better idea after she starts 6th form in September.

She does an energetic hobby/sport - lockdown was utter awful for her tbf.

DD was the one to bring up ADD and wanted to try the meds. I never thought she was that "odd" as she is so much like me.... ahem, yes explains so much of my life...

@steppemum
Great post and suggestions there. I will be filing those for when my two are a bit older. Thanks!

What's your relationship like with her? And her dad's relationship with her? Very simply, positive self regard comes from knowing we're unconditionally loved and accepted by those who matter to us. What do you do together that you really enjoy, really have fun doing?
Does she have friendships? How are these valued and nurtured?
Relationships are fundamental to wellbeing.

A lot like my DD with ADD (just diagnosed) she is a "doer" happy to be out doing stuff with others but will do nothing at home - school work or hobbies.

Mine too, got by in her GCSEs by being very engaged with the lessons but couldn't revise. She's been brilliant in the workplace from a Saturday job at 15 and now an apprenticeship because she's working with people, both in pressured environments, rather than sat on her own. From mid teens I didn't make her do anything, we talked through options and she made her own choices. I let go of any preconceived ideas about academic success and prioritised her mental health. I accepted that she just couldn't motivate herself rather than it being a choice (possibly ADD or some trauma-related issue though we've decided not to get a diagnosis) and lots of sitting together or going out driving so she felt loved and cared for. It was absolute hell at times, I'm a LP, was caring for my DPs and running a business at the same time, but now she's a successful young woman on her own terms rather than fitting into someone else's expectations and no longer depressed.

Pursue the ADHD assessment. She sounds like me as a teen, and I’m only just getting a diagnosis at 35. I could weep at how much I could have achieved in that time if anyone had ever picked up on it as a child or teen.

ZealAndArdour

Pursue the ADHD assessment. She sounds like me as a teen, and I’m only just getting a diagnosis at 35. I could weep at how much I could have achieved in that time if anyone had ever picked up on it as a child or teen

I am much older and was only diagnosed last month.
My life is a disaster

This is my DS to a T. Get her in a really good routine, lots of fitness, far less screen time. It's really helped mine. He's a lot more engaging now. Seems so much happier.

This sounds exactly like my sister bar the weight issues.

She didnt apply to uni her results were predicted to be so bad. On results day she did well enough to get into a uni (Cs & a few Bs) doing business. She got a first and now works in the city, no longer self harms, has a partner and is buying an 800k house at the age of 26.

Honestly no one would have said that if you knew her 14-16. So don't panic too much!

I let go of any preconceived ideas about academic success and prioritised her mental health. I accepted that she just couldn't motivate herself rather than it being a choice (possibly ADD or some trauma-related issue though we've decided not to get a diagnosis) and lots of sitting together or going out driving so she felt loved and cared for.

this is very muchwhere we are with dd2. Mental health first all the way. Academic success way down the list.(and she is clever and at super selective school) Lockdown was hell, keeping her in school where the structure and friendships works for her is priority. We talk with her about what needs to be done to get by and help her find ways that work. It is slow but mentally for me putting mental health first, has been very important in change of attitude for her benefit

@TabbyStar erm what is this thing "revision"???

It was a standing joke with my uni mates that I never revised 🤦🏼‍♀️

Re her homework, studying, flute lessons (also, very like me as I also played the flute at school).

My experience of time and scheduling is that things are in two categories they either need doing “now” or “not now”. And if something is in the “not now” category, I find it absolutely impossible to make a start on it in advance.

Everything I’ve ever achieved academically has been in a stressed panic in the 48 hours before the deadline, it’s a miserable way to live, but I don’t know how to be productive in any other way.

I’m getting too old for the stress of that now, in my teens and twenties it was fine, I could weather the storm and felt good that i’d got it done ultimately. Now I’m an adult I need to be able to plan and work in advance, hence me seeking a diagnosis.

Maybe she works with “now” and “not now” timescales too. I think it’s pretty typical of ADHD in girls.

I was really bright throughout school and always got by just enough that nobody had any concerns or recognised my struggles. But if you read my old school reports all the signs are there; “could be brilliant if only she applied herself”, “never quite works hard enough”, “likes to do her own thing”, “struggles to sit still and listen to the contributions of other people”. These themes are present throughout my reception, primary and secondary school reports.

Two of my biggest life savers as an adult are list making and religious use of google calendar on my phone and my computer. But I never got these things sorted until I really started to suffer the consequences of my inattention, like missing out on events, not returning forms on time, insurances running out, direct debits bouncing, etc.

I was a bit like this as a teenager. I was first and foremost very depressed about my looks and my weight (which looking back wasn’t so bad, but all my friends were very thin which made it worse). I also felt very socially disconnected from others at school, who were getting into parties and clubbing when I wasn’t that interested in those things. (I never really became interested in them - I liked reading and chatting to people instead, and came into my own at university - I never got into clubbing or parties, but sadly there aren’t as many opportunities for teenagers who don’t enjoy that kind of socialising until they leave home).

Academically I can also very much relate to your daughter not putting in the effort. It’s hard to organise yourself around school work as a teenager, when the rewards seem so far off.

My sense is that you should first get on top of some minor things, and only then start grappling with the school work. Despite what you think, there is time to catch up at school. However if she’s disorganised and suffering from low self esteem, pushing the school work first won’t ever succeed. My advice is not to try to change everything in one go. Start with her weight, room, routine, and helping her gradually get into better habits. Help her do her room, then as a pp says, establish a routine to keep on top of it, and helping her with it for the first while. Same with he weight/diet/appearance. Help her declutter and get her some new clothes and stuff. She’ll need some help for a while until she can start to feel better and more on top of things. If it’s her appearance and self-esteem bothering her, then she needs a lot of help to get out of that rut before she will be able to take control of her schoolwork and other things. It won’t work to try to do it all at the same time - it will be too overwhelming, but she’ll still feel bad about herself and things will slide back. If you can get her in a better place in herself and get her into a better routine/organised space etc., then she’ll be able to start dealing with schoolwork and enjoying life again.

She does sound very normal though, OP. Lots of teens have this without any diagnoses of anything else; but she does sound depressed and in need of positive gentle but ongoing help with herself as a person before you even think about the school work or flute.

Good luck

Despite setting up practice schedules, threats that we would stop the lessons , etc, in the end we accepted that she would attend the lessons because she was so insistent, and just leave her to it.

When we had this we stopped the lessons they often seem to like the idea of playing an instrument more than the reality.

I could have insisted rather than just reminded but it I was picking my battles school work and additional support work was insited upon.

Mine too, got by in her GCSEs by being very engaged with the lessons but couldn't revise.

I did this - did okay in A-levels but did struggle more- especially when I was struggling and only help was text books. It did feel like was floundering and that did impact on my self esteem and confidence. I did learn better techniqies by degree level - then towards end got disgosed - but making up ground once you start to fall behind is hard and made A-levels much harder.

DD1 just finished GCSE - revision for her was really hard we've encouraged on-line resources with replays and questions at the end - seneca and tassmai- I'm waiting to see how she gets on with A-levels. DS is slightly better will read and use revsion books - DD2 few years off GCSE but as secondary will need more interactive revision resouces I think.