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Please help me understand my daughter

70 replies

SupervisorAlert666 · 05/08/2021 09:01

NC for this because this is very personal.
I am more than prepared to be told I need to change the way I parent, but please be kind.
DD has recently turned 14. She is a lovely kid. Her primary years were reasonably smooth. She did well in school with little effort.
Once in secondary school, things changed a bit. The level of effort required to achieve the same results did not come naturally to her. Instead of trying harder, she kind of gave up. She still achieves reasonably well in the subjects she likes, but does not put any effort on the hard ones. She really doesn't put any effort on anything at all to be honest. Then she will feel crap about herself and feel really down because other people do really well. When we point out 'but you did not revise/work/practice', she gets stroppy, moody and goes off in a huff.

She takes flute lessons at school, she has done for many years. We pay for the lessons but had to accept a long time ago that she was going to do nothing between lessons, no practice whatsoever. Despite setting up practice schedules, threats that we would stop the lessons , etc, in the end we accepted that she would attend the lessons because she was so insistent, and just leave her to it.

She feels she is bigger than her friends (admittedly she is), but point blank refuses to exercise, ever. She will happily spend whole days sitting in her room, with the nintendo, the phone....

She is a really intelligent girl, yet, doesn't seem to accept cause and effect.

Two years ago she went through a very tough period and there was self harm. We tried everything we could think of to support her. She reluctantly agreed to see a counsellor, but after one or two sessions she would say she did not want to return, didn't find it helpful... this happened with 3 different counsellors. We also paid privately and was suggested that she might have inattentive adhd. We might pursue this, it is interesting to know that even if she doesn't get a diagnosis she clearly had some of the traits and that she can't help some of her behaviours, but DH and I are at a loss as to how to best support her.

We have tried co-creating schedule after schedule where the first 2 hours of the day there's an expectation of one chore, room tidy and exercise, in exchange for the rest of the day belonging to her completely. This goes well the first couple of days and then becomes another battle.

We have tried leaving her to her own devices completely, hoping that in time she would find it within herself to get her act together, but after a while, the outcome of this is that she does nothing, eats sugar and other crap, her room becomes a pigsty, there's piles of dirty laundry including soiled underwear under her pillow, under her bed, etc...

We have offered so many things. Recently she said she wanted a makeover for her room to keep it a bit more uncluttered. DH and I called a decorator and she now has a brand new room that it is slowly getting in a state.

I am dreading september when she starts in Y10 because I don't know how she is going to cope with the level of work. I just don't know what kind of parent to be for her. I have asked her so many times, what do you need, how do you want me to be, but we never get anywhere.

It is clear she has very low self-esteem but again, she seems to sabotage herself time and time again, we have offered clubs, lessons, support... she rejects everything. Things turn into a battle very quickly. DH and/or I will approach her for a chat about something we feel is not going in the right direction (e.g. her procrastinating for three hours after school achieving absolutely nothing), but she turns moody very quickly and refuses to engage.

I understand that maybe she just needs to mature and build her confidence and self esteem and that we need to give her time and space to do that, but I am worried that whilst that's happening, time in passing by and not doing well in her subjects (mostly science related ones) will be like a heavy weight for her to find her confidence.

I am asking for other parents in similar situations, how do you support your teenage daughters, is there a book I could read? Any strategies? I so want her to be happy.

OP posts:
ADHDmaybe · 05/08/2021 13:31

She sounds like me, OP.

I was high achieving. All As and A* at GCSE… to good results at A level, a 1st class degree but I constantly feel like I’m drowning.

I’m starting to process to get diagnosed but it’s taken me 7 months to fill in the form to register at the doctors… I’m a veterinary student. I’m capable, I want to do things but I just can’t!

I’m spinning too many plates and it seems like I can’t do any of them. My house is a mess, if I have an appointment I can’t do anything before just incase I miss it.. I sit and I wait.
I need schedules and routines but then I’m distraught if they’re changed.

Yet at university and work I cope. I look ‘normal’, I achieve but it takes so much of me to do so. I want to have hobbies but the choice is overwhelming so I spend money only to never do something more than once. I don’t know how to relax.

Bear in mind if she does have ADHD it often had co-morbidities like autism so they may be worth looking into too.

I feel like this isn’t her fault. She’s probably trying really hard. I know I am.
You sound so lovely and supportive and I know it sounds like you’re enabling her but help her, please. Help her to clean. Give her tasks like “put all the rubbish in this bin bag and once done come back to me”. Break it down for her and support her

ZealAndArdour · 05/08/2021 13:37

@ADHDmaybe

I really identify with what you said about appointments and not being able to do anything before.

I also feel like I constantly have too many plates spinning, no matter what mechanisms I put in place, overwhelmed is my almost constant state of being, when I’m not overwhelmed I’ve managed to completely disassociate from anything that I’m meant to be doing, and am probably laid on my bed endlessly scrolling and achieving nothing aside from making my life harder and my tasks more urgent.

ADHDmaybe · 05/08/2021 13:38

Would she use apps that can help with studying/routine?

Like forest which locks your phone and you grow a tiny tree for your forest..
or Habitica where you tick off habits and a little character levels up?

It may sound silly but these sort of things work for me. It’s worth considering?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

irresistibleoverwhelm · 05/08/2021 13:39

Oh and relax about the flute. I was the same with a different instrument - couldn’t get myself to practice but still wanted to play. The people I knew then who all practiced fur hours a day and did amazing music stuff all gave it up at university too just as me and my mediocre playing did, so in the end there was no difference! - so just let her enjoy doing it without practice and don’t nag at her about it. Just even doing it a bit is nice, people don’t have to live up to all their potential in every area of life.

ADHDmaybe · 05/08/2021 13:40

@ZealAndArdour
It’s so comforting to know I’m not alone. The Facebook groups are great for this too.

I bought a new laptop because I didn’t organise my files and it got too overwhelming.. my new laptop is now in a terrible state too and I have exams next month.

My friend offered to order the files for me but I feel so embarrassed. I am capable, I know how to work a computer but I just can’t do it!

I also feel like a massive fraud though and many people I’ve told think I’m overreacting.

ADHDmaybe · 05/08/2021 13:41

Sorry for all of my typos!

ZealAndArdour · 05/08/2021 13:41

I use the Pomodoro method when I’m trying to study, that’s another one to look into. It rewards you with five minute breaks after every 25 minutes of intense focus, and then you get a bigger break after a certain amount of 25 minute sessions.

pomofocus.io/

ZealAndArdour · 05/08/2021 13:49

@ADHDmaybe

I can identify with the computer thing too. I’m always convinced that if only I get this next thing then everything will be fixed. I stopped using my laptop because I felt like I wasn’t being productive enough sat on the sofa or wherever, so a desktop would be better because then I’m in “the right place” to study and be in the right mindset, and now I sit at my desktop, and get all uncomfortable and shuffly in my seat and my attention starts to drift and I think “oh, if only I had a laptop then I could just move elsewhere and carry on studying”.

I’ve been through so many diaries, so many new pens, so many handbags, always looking for the thing that was gonna make it all click into place.

Hahah, I now realise I was looking in the wrong place for my magic fix.

Organising files would be a job i’d do whilst avoiding my actual academic work Grin

Do you find that you perform well in exams? I’ve always liked an exam, when I’ve even taught the material well face to face. I am usually super engaged in lectures these days so if all the exam material has been covered I’ll be fine, all I need to do to revise is just look up the small bits that I’m hazy on, but studying from a textbook or trying to teach myself anything that I don’t want to learn for my own enjoyment is a bloody nightmare.

Good luck with it all.

ZealAndArdour · 05/08/2021 13:50

*been

randomlyLostInWales · 05/08/2021 13:52

Two of my biggest life savers as an adult are list making and religious use of google calendar on my phone and my computer. But I never got these things sorted until I really started to suffer the consequences of my inattention,

This is where my Mothers scaffolding work stepped in - she taught me to do these things till it's automatic.

By time I left home - checking everything before leaving house - usually twice often working through a list metal or otherwise - writing things down on calendars immediately - making lists and then ordering them - were all second nature.

I've often been bemused DH doesn't do these things - he the one who left bags coats toys of the kids on trains in venues - I was taught to check you had everything before leaving. He's the one who double booked things as he doens't automatically check calander before hand. He's the one madly checking pockets and coats for passport or tickets where I've made sure we have them and that I know which bag/pocket they are in - though I'll be have checking quietly many times they were still there. He's the one who doesn't double/triple check timetables and openings.

It's much easier for him to just leave the house - me I often have to pop to loo to have a quick think about what needs to happen first though he's more likely to do it without something he may need. I also find it hard to not focus on upcoming appointments - I think it fear that I might miss them though I tend to be on time and with everything that might be needed.

lborgia · 05/08/2021 13:53

I'm ADD, my son is autistic. I'm gradually coming around to the opinion that add and adhd is just focusing on one element of the spectrum. Either way, the reason it doesn't show up at school is that she isn't disruptive, and she's a girl. This is absolutely classic, and shouldn't distract you.

It's extremely common for kids to hold it together during the first years, either because they're very bright, good memories, and/or sociable, good mimics.

14-15 is classic timing for it all to really crumble.

Get her help, get her medicine, keep supporting.

It's brilliant that you're already so close to a solution, I don't think you're far off a break through. Once you all know what you're dealing with your one job is to show that you accept her however she is, and whatever ends up being her path.

You've got this.

ADHDmaybe · 05/08/2021 13:56

@ZealAndArdour

I’m the same with thinking this one thing will fix it! I honestly think my school teachers were just very good at keeping me accountable and now I don’t know how to do that myself. I think I suffer a lot from RSD so I want to please.

In exams I usually do quite well! I do work hard but I don’t work efficiently. I don’t relax and I’m just constantly burnt out. I’ve currently got 4 diaries on the go which I go through stages with.. this one will work and then that one etc. I tried to organise my desk so bought one pots.. I wanted the black pens together for example but the gel pens and biros are not the same so I separated them. I ended up with 42 separate pots and 36 of them had a single pen in them!! I know it’s stupid but I just can’t figure out how to get organised.

I have to pack my bag the night before I go to lectures but I still check it 4/5 times before I leave and I’ll sometimes still forget something.

I can’t teach myself. I get worried I will teach myself wrong, the internet doesn’t always have reliable sources etc so I bought all of the textbooks.. some costing over £200 and I’ve never used a lot of them.

I’m 22 and I feel like I need someone to guide me through everything. It feels like everyone else had more hours in their day and I’m missing half of mine but trying so hard

RandomMess · 05/08/2021 14:01

The "problem" with the websites and books and all the other self-help stuff is making yourself engage with them....

If there was a weekly class I could go to then yep would be so much easier...

BlankTimes · 05/08/2021 14:07

It's very common for neurodiverse kids to have parents report a lot of traits and school to report few if any.

This is due to the child masking in school, then when they get home, all the suppressed frustrations are let go in their safe space.

Ask for a multi-disciplinary assessment for her, it's done by a team usually Paed, OT, SLT and Ed Ps
ych. they will comprehensively assess and report on all her challenges and weaknesses and suggest specific interventions.

Don't get hung up on the name of a condition, traits of many overlap and it takes professionals to pick it all apart.

SiulaGrande · 05/08/2021 14:12

I feel for you OP. DD has some similarities. What's been working for me is working on myself to really identify a few values and set a few healthy boundaries. You asked about books etc. I have found The Journey of the Heroic Parent (thanks to another Mumsnetter rec) really helpful (don't need DC to have serious issues for it to be relevant).

The ethos is that good parenting is an end in itself. We decide what that looks like for ourselves and enact it and let go of the outcome because we cannot control other people. There are tonnes of the author's podcasts too, which I have found v helpful. His mantra is "do your work" as in work on your wellbeing. Set boundaries from this place and let the child be themselves.

Also it's about being fallible and owning that. Modelling that being human is being yourself and not acting from a feeling that one should do everything or be good. I've found it really interesting to see how many little ways I wasn't accepting aspects of DD and I stop and think now to really interrogate what I am about to say with regard to what she's feeling or doing. More acceptance, more reflective listening and leaving it at that. Lots of love of course. But she is her own person and this is where she is now so I hold that, sit with it, try not to say anything about she should do xyz. Combine this with boundaries such as phone disabled after a set time, meals together, holidays mean some walks, that kind of thing.

SupervisorAlert666 · 06/08/2021 19:19

Thank you everyone. We will pursue diagnosis although then what, medication? Intrigued about the pomodoro technique. So 25 mins work, 5 mins break. Is there more to it than this? There's books about it in amazon but I can't imagine what else they talk about. A tomato shapes timer would appeal to her Smile.

OP posts:
ZealAndArdour · 06/08/2021 20:16

I don’t think there is any more to the technique tbh.

It’s literally just 25 mins intense study, 5 mins break, repeat a further 3x and then you get a 15-30 minute break.

You’re meant to protect your pomodoro (the 25 min sections) so you’re not disturbed or distracted. And you mustn’t work in your breaks either.

If prone to distractions I also find it useful to have an extra notepad on the table to right down everything that pops into my head that would distract me. So I can trust that I’m not gonna forget it if I don’t do it immediately, for me it’s usually things like “oh I better just google how much flights are for that thing” or random pointless facts that don’t have any benefit to my work, or that I need to call someone today, etc.

ZealAndArdour · 06/08/2021 20:16

*write.

ThePontiacBandit · 07/08/2021 07:19

I highly recommend reading The Explosive child by Ross Greene. It helps you see things from your child’s perspective and work out how you can help them in a non-confrontational way, and it advises regardless of diagnosis (or not). It really helped us change our approach with DD and things are better for it.

Ledkr · 07/08/2021 09:56

I'd lighten up on the bid talks for a bit and just spend time with her with no pressure to achieve or talk about what's wrong. Just laugh together and chat about nonsense.
A book I have read recently which really helped me with my two DDS as well as in my work with teens, was Lorraine Candy what's wrong with you? Conversations with teen daughters. It's very good and I think full of good advice.

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