My worst nightmare nearly happened this morning 😞

[purrswhileheeats]

I was reversing out of my driveway and almost ran over my neighbour's child, he was directly behind my car. He's no more than three years old and the only reason I saw him was he was waving his arms in the air and I saw them in my rear view mirror. He's so tiny I wouldn't have seen him otherwise as he was below the level of the back window IFYSWIM. My neighbour was loading stuff into his boot so I beeped the horn and shouted to him, he ran over, grabbed the boy and took him inside.

I was shaking and crying (sorry, that's so MN) when I got to work. They're a new family on the estate, only moved in a few months ago. The dad must've known the boy was playing outside while he was loading the car but didn't bother to check where he was.

I'm waiting for them to come home so I can go and speak to them. It's so horrible, I feel sick thinking about what could have happened.

Do you also apply that to cars driving past the front of driveways? They’re going very fast, who is to blame if the car exiting the driveway reverses into the side of them?

A driver hasn't got sixth sense - they can be as cautious as they want, but someone running / scooting / cycling behind or in front of them, is dangerous. However slowly they are going, it may necessitate slamming on the brakes, or a collision.

Sorry, this is the post I was replying to with this -

Do you also apply that to cars driving past the front of driveways? They’re going very fast, who is to blame if the car exiting the driveway reverses into the side of them?

They shouldn’t have a small child unsupervised playing on someone else’s driveway or immediately in front of it. It’s just common sense. You have done nothing wrong.

@MrsKoala

"When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can."

I've read this thread with interest so sorry for the derailment but if anyone knows what I can do about this I'd appreciate it. We have a problem reversing onto our drive as everyone on our street has found. It's a main road leading to 2 A roads and the m25. Virtually everyone who drives past is on 'get somewhere else' mode. Its a 20mph but most people are doing 60 as in their mind they are already on the faster road and out of the residential area. When we indicate and slow down and drive just past the drive ready to reverse in, the car behind zooms right up our arse and then there are 20 cars behind them doing the same. When we first moved here I used to have to keep driving round the block then just give up and drive forwards onto the drive. We've got a new neighbour who knocked and asked what to do as she was having the same problem and everyone told her you have to drive on forwards. The police even drive on forwards when they've been round (I was a witness to a crime - they aren't called on us!).

The highway code says to do it where possible, so it's a question of doing what is safest in the specific scenario. If it's not possible to do it safely, it's not possible.

It can't be nice living on a 20mph road with people bombing up it at 60mph

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

Except children have every right to walk/scoot etc. down the pavement without checking every drive. They have right of way. As do all the other pedestrians.

failing to check for cars, and moving at speed making it more risky for drivers

Drivers reversing out of their drives makes it more risky for pedestrians. Pedestrians on the pavement are not a risk to the driver in any way, unless you are worried they might leave a dent in the car?

Stupid post, honestly.

The best driver in the world - driving forward OR reversing - can't anticipate a speeding scooter or runner.

They can exit cautiously and slowly, and preferably driving forward not reversing, I agree.

But a sensible person checks for egress if they are moving at speed, conscious of the above.

It's not either / or! Both parties have responsibility. Of course the driver does especially, as you say, they'll cause the harm. But that doesn't make it ok for someone on the pavement to blithely ignore egress points. Particularly for the reason that they'll be injured.

The point about risk is risk for the pavement-user 🙄 as you know. No-one, driver included, wants anyone to come to harm.

The best driver in the world - driving forward OR reversing - can't anticipate a speeding scooter or runner.

Again, this seems to imply that cars driving past the front of driveways should stop before each one and check nobody is coming out. That would be nonsense wouldn’t it?

The people saying this are looking to excuse the OP of responsibility, probably because they park the same way. I dont believe they do check every drive.

You're a bit tedious.

I do check. I don't stop running. I guess I do as you do, and have a general awareness but I don't stop. But yes, every drive, I check.

If I saw a car reversing out, or driving forward, I'd mostly catch the driver's eye, and slow down. They might wave me on, or they might exit.

It's common courtesy too. It can be hard to exit a driveway with lots of people on a pavement (forward or reverse) so I'm happy to let a driver out.

@CarlottaValdez

Do you also apply that to cars driving past the front of driveways? They’re going very fast, who is to blame if the car exiting the driveway reverses into the side of them?

What??

Actually, in law, you'll find the driver has responsibility.

I said that I maintain an awareness of what's going on around me, but I am not obligated to check for cars driving on the pavement in the same way that a driver is obligated to check for pedestrians.

It's very rare to have such tall fences around a drive that you wouldn't be able to see an adult moving fast along the pavements. (It is around here, anyway - the tallest fences around front gardens ar around waist height. Some hedges are higher, but that just means you need to be even more cautious when driving off.)

What??

I’m asking whether you think cars driving down a road also need to check nobody is coming out of their drive as they proceed? Like you think pedestrians should.

@CarlottaValdez

A driver hasn't got sixth sense - they can be as cautious as they want, but someone running / scooting / cycling behind or in front of them, is dangerous. However slowly they are going, it may necessitate slamming on the brakes, or a collision.

Sorry, this is the post I was replying to with this -

Do you also apply that to cars driving past the front of driveways? They’re going very fast, who is to blame if the car exiting the driveway reverses into the side of them?

Oh sorry replied without seeing this!

I'm a bit worried you need this clarification tbh!
The other cars are on the road. To get there the emerging car has to exit out on to the pavement at some point, and wait until there is space to join the traffic.

It's not at all like a small child running by.

The traffic is large, noisy and visible, as the car will be on the pavement seeing it, before joining the flow of traffic.

Nothing comparable at all!

It can't be nice living on a 20mph road with people bombing up it at 60mph

Thanks for replying. It's fine regarding noise for me, because I grew up on the great west road! But it annoys me because the drivers are such twats round here have to cross one of the 2 pedestrian crossings about 6 times a day and at least once a day a car goes through it when its on red. Not amber, but completely red they see it amber about 50 metres away then put their foot down and go through it while the green man is flashing. 4 times my children have nearly been hit. Anyway. sorry to derail OP.

Accidents can happen but it sounds to me like the dad was lax and should have been paying attention to where his child was and the fact that there was a car engine running. My DD is only 2.5 and I’m trying to reach her to stand still (in a safe place) when she sees a car moving, if she messes around in a car park and tries to run away she gets told off.

Equally, if you can try to reverse in rather than out.

The other cars are on the road. To get there the emerging car has to exit out on to the pavement at some point, and wait until there is space to join the traffic.

They can also wait in their drive until there is nobody on the pavement if they can wait on the pavement for a space in traffic.

@CarlottaValdez

The best driver in the world - driving forward OR reversing - can't anticipate a speeding scooter or runner.

Again, this seems to imply that cars driving past the front of driveways should stop before each one and check nobody is coming out. That would be nonsense wouldn’t it?

No it doesn't.

Do you drive? Frankly ridiculous comparison.

However, if I am driving along a road, and see a car reversing out, or trying to, if at all possible, I'll slow & allow it exit. Just for courtesy & to make it easier for the reversing driver.

Any driver should be scanning the environment to be aware of potential obstacles so while they don't need to stop or slow down at driveways, they should be aware of emerging traffic.

We had a near miss once but I wasn't driving, rather a visiting parent was and entering a paddock with their 4wd for a pickup.

They had a youngish boy (maybe 5 or so) who would not stay in one spot or hold his mother's hand who was also standing nearby (she decided it might be helpful if she stood between a gate fencepost and the 4wd at one point so the post wouldn't scratch the car) so in the end, I stopped the Father from driving, picked up the boy and told the father to put him in the vehicle as it was the safest place for him.

Howls of protest from both father and child. But sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out.

Perhaps in your case, the family needs to fence their front yard separately from the driveway as it could have equally happened to them too.

I do drive, yes. I’ve never driven across a pavement without checking that it’s clear.

@MrsKoala

"When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can."

I've read this thread with interest so sorry for the derailment but if anyone knows what I can do about this I'd appreciate it. We have a problem reversing onto our drive as everyone on our street has found. It's a main road leading to 2 A roads and the m25. Virtually everyone who drives past is on 'get somewhere else' mode. Its a 20mph but most people are doing 60 as in their mind they are already on the faster road and out of the residential area. When we indicate and slow down and drive just past the drive ready to reverse in, the car behind zooms right up our arse and then there are 20 cars behind them doing the same. When we first moved here I used to have to keep driving round the block then just give up and drive forwards onto the drive. We've got a new neighbour who knocked and asked what to do as she was having the same problem and everyone told her you have to drive on forwards. The police even drive on forwards when they've been round (I was a witness to a crime - they aren't called on us!).

In your case I would slow down and put the indicator on well before the driveway. Car behind will be unsure of where you are going to turn and will likely fall back and give you space.

Also I would try and get the neighbours on board with petitioning the council for speed bumps. 60 in a 20 zone??? Where the hell are the speed police?

Carlotta's point is valid. Car drivers accept that they are responsible for being ultra-cautious when reversing on to the road, because there will be other cars travelling at speed along it, and those cars are not obliged to slow down and check every driveway before passing it.

This isn't controversial at all, but for some reason expecting the same level of caution and responsibility with regard to the possibility of hitting pedestrians on the pavement is considered insane, because it's obviously the pedestrian's responsibility to avoid the car.

It's a bit like how some men will happily barge into women who don't move out of the way, as they expect the woman to swerve around them, but will manage to avoid doing the same to other men.

I am not obligated to check for cars driving on the pavement in the same way that a driver is obligated to check for pedestrians.

No, of course not.

You're really harping on about 'the law'. I prefer to try and drive, and use the pavement, courteously, and make life as easy for others as I can.

You appear to have a different approach & to be wilfully misunderstanding me so probably best I leave it here!

I also drive btw. And I'm also a pedestrian and cyclist.

A 3 year old loose without supervision isn’t safe around a car whatever way you’ve parked. You wouldn’t necessarily see them from the front either if you’ve got a tall car. Or they could run into the side of you or behind you as you park up. Hopefully the parents have had a wake up call that children that little need constant supervision or to be contained in a safe area. Generally side visibility isn’t great when pulling off a drive whatever way you do it so I definitely check drives as I walk on the pavement. I’d rather not get run over on a principle!

Some people are clearly more reckless than others - yes I do check every driveway before I walk across it to make sure someone is not driving up it, as I have a personal dislike of the idea of being run over. I do not generally even have to slow down to do this if I am walking. It is nothing like crossing a road, because most driveways are very short and the cars sitting on them very visible, including their reverse lights. They are also unlikely to be moving fast even if they are moving. Unlike the reversing car driver’s view of the approaching pedestrian, the pedestrian usually has a good view of the drive they are about to cross. I would nevertheless be extremely angry if the car driver were not being extremely cautious, because nobody wants an accident to happen and the owner of the dangerous vehicle clearly has the lion’s share of the responsibility if something bad happens, as they are the one with the means to kill.

I prefer to try and drive, and use the pavement, courteously, and make life as easy for others as I can.

Absolutely. I will happily make room for drivers, cyclists or pedestrians on the road or pavement as required, and the roads where I live are sufficiently quiet most of the time that none of this is an issue.

But I take road safety as a driver very seriously, and I have no patience with drivers who try to deny the responsibility they are taking on when they get behind the wheel. Driving can be very dangerous, and it is fundamentally a more responsible undertaking than walking along the pavement - that's why we regulate it and why there is a minimum age for driving.

I've been shocked by the number of posters on this thread who have told the OP she did nothing wrong despite the fact that what she did was against the highway code. She may be overseas, but bad practice is still bad practice.

@CarlottaValdez

The other cars are on the road. To get there the emerging car has to exit out on to the pavement at some point, and wait until there is space to join the traffic.

They can also wait in their drive until there is nobody on the pavement if they can wait on the pavement for a space in traffic.

Oh FGS. They can't know if there's no-one on the pavement, if they've checked & double-checked & then a scooter / bike comes flying by.

They can do everything they can but this can still happen.

I'm thinking of a busy road near me close to several schools. I don't live on it. It's hard for people to reverse in - perhaps not even possible - as the traffic on the main road moves to fast to allow this.

Cars emerge from their driveways very very slowly, checking around them. Usually people will stop on the pavement to allow them out, and cars will stop on the road for the same reason.

They would probably never get a moment where there's an empty pavement and road. And this is part of being a competent driver, to deal with this.

My point is it's unfair and unsafe to race along pavements - and that's usually children - and it's no big issue for pavement users to slow down and check as appropriate.

This doesn't excuse reckless drivers who don't check or exit unsafely / quickly.