Help! Told to vacate paddock within 7 days or court proceedings will start

[Smudgingpastels]

Have no where else for our animals, our grazing licence expired Oct 2020 but the BHS legal helpline said stay put as it has turned into a common law tenancy as we have been there for 3-4 years and have maintained the land. What should we do? Any lawyers please?

@rwalker

CF at the finest they haven't renewed your lease and you think you are entitled to stay .

If it does go to court they may be able to claim cost from you for the process.

You forgot the part where OP wants to face them in court to take their land from them!

This is crazy. Find somewhere else for your horses before you lose them.

If you go to court, you will also have to pay their costs if you lose - which you will.

So you are basically fly grazing.

Find a new paddock ASAP.
Wealthy people will win in court and you may have to pay costs.
Find a new paddock NOW.

Maybe this self entitled attitude is why they want their land back.
Your horses are at risk there as others have said.

Owning horses is a big responsibility and risking them on squatted land is not something I’d want to risk.

As far as I'm aware a landowner that has animals on his land without permission has to serve notice that the animals must be removed, if the animals are still there after 14 days the landowner can claim the animal and keep, sell or slaughter as required.

Steps to take under the Animals Act 1971 – (as amended by Control of Horses Act 2015)

Even if you know or think you know who the owner is, you must notify the officer in charge of a police station and obtain an incident number. You may wish to put up an abandonment notice for a minimum of four working days (England) although this is not a legal requirement. Download a sample Abandonment Notice here.

A responsible owner should attend to their horse at least once a day, so putting a notice in place for four days would be more than adequate warning for them to respond.

If you do place a notice it should include a contact number and address, a very short description of the horse and your intention to remove the horse(s) if no owner comes forward. Display the notice prominently where you found the horse(s).

It may be worth using a sign even if you think your land is being fly-grazed – you may find the horses will disappear.

Fly grazing guidance - image 2 June2016.jpg

If an owner comes forward

If you are approached by someone claiming to be the owner, it is advisable to ask to see the horse’s passport, which they should, by law, have in their possession. If the horse was born after 2009 the passport should include a microchip number; this number can then be verified by scanning the horse with a microchip scanner. This will prevent someone fraudulently claiming the horse. The passport will contain a detailed description of the horse.

Remember that a passport is not legal proof of ownership, however it should give some assurance that the person is the owner. There may be situations where a person may not have a passport to show, such as when they have only just purchased the horse. Alternatively if someone has photos or can give an accurate description this should be acceptable as an indication of ownership. If you have concerns that they are not the legal owner of the horse you can contact the police for advice.

You do not have to release the horse until the owner has reimbursed you for any damage caused by the horse to your property and any expenses reasonably incurred in keeping the horse an ascertaining who owns it. If the owner refuses to pay your reasonable expenses within the “defined period”, you can then rehome, sell, euthanase or keep the horse.

The “defined period” is set out in the Animals Act 1971 and is 96 hours from the period when the horse was first detained but ignoring any time falling on any of the following days: 1) Saturday or Sunday, 2) Good Friday or Christmas Day, 3) A day that is a bank holiday in England and Wales (as defined by the Banking and Financial Dealing Act 1971).

@Smudgingpastels

The email in October simply said they were not renewing the licence nothing else and they did not say to leave. There were times before when we were not asked for payment.

You aren't telling the truth here now are you.

You said earlier in the thread We understood from their email they wanted to upgrade the fencing and not to leave permanently

Reading between the lines you have had an email telling you that they aren't renewing your licence because they want to undertake works to renew the fencing (I.e you need to take your pony out of our field)

And you have heard... stay put and don't pay us anything ... somehow.

This is just crazy. What am I reading?

Yeah, the ‘David and Goliath’ mentality won’t cut any ice with the actual law.

Correct: D&G normally refers to a big powerful person/company/body trying to use their might to aggressively and unfairly bully a 'small' person into doing what they want - like if there were, say, a worldwide chain of fast food joints called McDougal's who heard of Tam McDougal in Fife and his 350-year-old local ironmongery business that was originally started by his GGGGGGGGF and then demanded that he stop trading under the 'McDougal's' name. It doesn't mean that the big rich person is automatically wrong and the little guy automatically justified in doing what they like.

Even if some random on the phone said "it's yours now, you've got common-law rights" did this not ring alarm bells?

1. "Hey! I'm a good, honest citizen. I don't want to 'take' someone's land that isn't mine.
2. "Hm, common law marriage isn't a real thing, though it's a popular myth. Perhaps this is also an entirely fabricated concept? I'm sure renting land out to people would become a lot less popular if the tenants could just keep taking it.
3. "Maybe I should ask an actual legal person about this rather than a free helpline who has quite likely misunderstood me?"

Are you for real here?
You have a grazing licence for someone’s land which expired in October?
Now they’ve asked you to move your animals (from THEIR land) and you want to see them in court?

Bonkers. Absolutely bonkers.
(As an aside I wouldn’t think leaving defenceless animals on someone’s land who wants you gone is remotely smart).

Move your horses.

@Smudgingpastels

What is the process if I ignore the letter and let them take me to court?

If you are pretty and blonde , are a washed up ex pop star former junkie and live in an expensive house/DM “mansion” the DM will love you. But it won’t help you win your case.

Why did you originally have a licence anyway? What was the actual purpose of this if not an agreement for you to have grazing rights? Thus, if the licence is not renewed, surely that's a very obvious way of terminating the agreement?

It's basically a legal and polite way of saying 'get off our land'.

This is so bizarre! Why would you just ignore it OP? Especially when you have the opportunity to buy it? Engage with them, work out a solution. Or leave. But don’t just ignore it. How would that help you at all? They’ll just put your horses off the land on eviction day.

How many animals are we talking about OP?

What would you say in court that you won't say to them now?

Sorry but with horses I don't think you have any rights. Rights to tenancies in land are only applied to farmers and horses don't qualify as livestock unless you are a breeding stud or working the land with the horses.

We rent land out. If someone was told to leave and didn't when the notice period expired I would box their horses and tether them all on the owner's front garden. OP. Look for alternative grazing. Now

Honestly I have to return and ask the Op. what gives you this staggering right of entitlement?

It’s not your land. How is that not clear to you?

You have had ages to find other land for your horses. Maybe the advice to stay put was becsuse of Covid. You'll have to go eventually. Why make things difficult.

Entitled much?

It’s not your land. Move on.

If you let it go to court you will lose, be evicted (and the animals seized if you do not remove them within the stated time limit, which may be immediately) you will very likely be forced to pay their legal costs as well as your own, this will show up as a CCJ against your name and you will be unable to rent anything else as no one will take you on with an eviction against you.

That is the process.

@Smudgingpastels

What is the process if I ignore the letter and let them take me to court?

Why would you do this? Why are you digging your heels in and ignoring the advice on here?

It would be cheaper to move your livestock or buy the field than to be taken to court. You will lose your case and end up having to pay costs.

@viques
“If you are pretty and blonde , are a washed up ex pop star former junkie and live in an expensive house/DM “mansion” the DM will love you. But it won’t help you win your case.”

Wait and let them take you to court. I hope you have deep pockets or find alternative grazing /livery for your horses now.
It’s their land, you are wrong and the court will not be on your side. You can’t win this because the owners haven’t broken the law.

If your grazing license or agreement ran out last October and / or you haven't been paying rent for it, the owner has every right to ask you to move off.

I'd be more inclined to suggest you speak with the owners, acknowledge the situation and explain you are currently looking for alternative grazing and land to rent then ask if they're willing to allow you say four weeks tops to get off. If you've already bought yourself more than enough time and options i.e. the owner has been as fair and patient with you until now then save your time, energy and focus on finding somewhere else asap.