Migrants, where do they go?

[HeidiHoNeighbour]

Watching the news this morning and a dinghy with migrants is being live broadcast.

I wondered where do they go?
When they reach shore?
How do they manage?
You have enough problems getting any form of help (benefits, housing) even if you do have the paperwork.

I’m not even thinking about the things they’ve left behind or how desperate they must be to risk lives.

Just to clarify - I didn't mean that the people coming over in boats are illegal migrants, I was referring to some of the previous posters who seem to be confused about the differences between illegal and legal migrants. I have no idea how asylum seekers manage to get started once they get here, I would imagine (and perhaps naively hope) that they could present themselves to local councils to get help.

@fairgame84

Some of them will already be in touch with friends/family in the uk and will go to them. They will work cash in hand.

I knew an illegal that worked cash in hand at corner shops and car washes. He was kurdish and worked for kurdish bosses. He was in relationship with an English woman and had 2 children with her. He wasn't entitled to anything because he was staying under the radar but he's been here for years. Lovely family actually, I felt bad for him, it's a crap situation.
But on the other hand we've jumped through hoops and spent thousands for my husband to come here legally and it's frustrating that those doing it illegally are making it more difficult for those of us doing it properly.

“An illegal”? Illegal what? Cat?

@MoleHoleGuacamole I wasn't saying that the asylum seekers are illegal migrants, my comment was in response to some of the people in this thread who seem to be referring to migrants, but meaning illegal migrants. Of course asylum seekers aren't illegal!

The correct term is undocumented, not illegal

It’s not, actually. They’re both wrong. It is so, so much more involved than that.

There is no such thing as a bogus asylum-seeker or an illegal asylum-seeker. As an asylum-seeker, a person has entered into a legal process of refugee status determination. Everybody has a right to seek asylum in another country. Agreed. It’s globally recognised that a person seeking asylum cannot be expected to get the necessary visas etc before travelling.

@IGiveUpWithSomePeople “we did what we could with the time limits”
So who are you in respect to the hotel then?

[quote IGiveUpWithSomePeople]@LenonRoses, Napier was the only one I know of in kent and honestly it was fine, not perfect but it was an emergency measure and from what I can recall, a couple of million had been spent on it to make it more habitable from when it was used by the army and sea scouts
Others were moved to local hotels where they, along with everyone else had to stay in lock down.
@Fangsalot89 nobody with local knowledge calls it the Grand Burstin, its basic but its safe and dry
Again emergency measures
I'm honestly not try to cause any bother but it wasn't as awful as people think
We all did our best[/quote]
The courts felt differently.
PHE felt differently.
The Fire and rescue services felt differently.

Glad you think it was OK.

Asylum seekers and refugees who make it this far, are very often those with trades or professional occupations, English speaking skills, enough money to pay for passage, or connections. They were people like you and me, before war, political persecution, or famine, or extremism or climate conditions drove them from their homes.

If I were unlucky enough to find mine and my sons lives were no longer safe in this country, I’d be heading to Spain; I speak the language, I know much of the country and I have connections there. I wouldn’t be stopping in France, where I speak none of the language, know nobody, and can’t even navigate the capital city reliably.

And for anyone thinking “Itll never happen here”- just to offer one or two examples- do you know what Spain was like in the 1950s under Franco? Do you think the Germans were always under the Third Reich? Don’t be so sure it won’t happen here.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa3o7vWG93w

[quote Youarestillintherunning]@MoleHoleGuacamole I wasn't saying that the asylum seekers are illegal migrants, my comment was in response to some of the people in this thread who seem to be referring to migrants, but meaning illegal migrants. Of course asylum seekers aren't illegal![/quote]
But I'm saying, how do you know who is and who isn't an asylum seeker? The OP is talking about migrants arriving via dinghy, in what would have undoubtedly been a horrific journey, and you're here going on about how much you spent doing it 'the right way', and distinguishing between legal and illegal. Oh but wait -- you don't mean asylum seekers. How do we know which group the migrants on the boat fall into?

These stories we see on the news are heartbreaking and the reporting and attitude around these human beings are awful, and you (and a few others on this thread) contribute to that by derailing this topic with 'but what about the illegals'.

I used to teach asylum seekers and most were economics migrants not fearing for their life. Once they had leave to remain, they used to go home. They couldn't fly into their own countries because of restrictions on their travel documentation, but they get to the border and be picked up by family and go home. Some got married there. Some brought investment from their families to this country although didn't declare it. Most had communities here and they'd move to be with them. English is widely spoken across the world so coming to an English speaking country makes people feel comfortable.

Obviously all the ones I taught were registered and had documentation to stay. They received welfare and worked in the black market because they weren't allowed to work until given the leave to remain. I did meet the occasional person who was genuinely afraid for their life if they returned, but not many. Some would lose their right to remain, and obviously left my class as no longer funded, sometimes disappearing into the ether, sometimes not. At that point they were here illegally just like anyone who has entered the country on a visa which has subsequently expired.

Asylum seekers can't just be judged as all suffering souls, no more than they should be thought of as cheeky bastards. In my experience there's some of both.

Some of them present to the authorities, but some don't. I live on the south east coast and we fairly often see migrants arrive on the beach. Some beat a hasty exit into the hinterland. We often have police cars and helicopters trying to locate them.

Two years ago I was on the beach and a RIB raced onto the beach, more than a dozen young men leapt out and raced inland. They very obviously didn't want to be picked up by the authorities, when I left the beach I could see them quickly making their way inland over a field. They had mobile phones and were clearly in touch with someone here who was going to find them shelter/work. The coastguard had seen them arrive and I think that time the police caught up with some of them.

@Samcro

why are things so bad in france? I don't mean at the border.as surely the people there have already decided the UK is where they want to be. but why so many people not stopping in france, risking everything to come to the UK.

Because France aren’t as generous to illegal immigrants as the U.K. is

@Samcro and @Bringbackguitarsolos

The number of people seeking asylum in 2019:

UK - 35,556
France - 114,500
Germany - 161,900

So three times as many asylum seekers stay in France than come to Britain. Germany takes almost five times as many as us.
Still think we're hard done by?

To reiterate. It is not illegal to claim asylum. They enter the country legally.

It’s Farage myth that France is less generous. Asylum seekers in France get paid about £4 a week more than those in the UK. Their access to healthcare is better.
France resettles far more refugees than the U.K.

These ‘boat people’ do not constitute the highest numbers of illegal immigrants- although as said, they are not illegal immigrants until any asylum claim has been settled. In fact, international law requires

The majority of illegal immigrants are from Asian countries and are people overstaying on visas. A significant proportion are from USA and Australasia. These groups far exceed the numbers arriving by boat.

Not assisting people in unsafe boats breaches both maritime and humanitarian laws. Non-assistance to refugees and migrants at sea is not a legal option. When they are rescued, there are obligations for the rescuing state. These obligations include a responsibility for protecting human rights of the rescuees.

But for the grace of God and/or accident of birth, go each of us.

@MolyHolyGuacamole please, where have I said anything about my own personal opinion on migrants? Whether they are are legal, illegal or asylum seekers? I was pointing out that some people on this thread are confused with the difference between them, they are making comments but don't seem to understand that there is a difference. And depending on if they are illegal/legal migrants or asylum seekers will affect what they do when they arrive to the UK. Don't try and cause an issue where there isn't one. I haven't said that one group are any more or less deserving of help than any others, because that isn't what I believe. Im merely pointing out that there factually IS a difference, therefore what they do when they get here will be different.

@MolyHolyGuacamole, and if you had read my other comment, you would have seen that I said I don't know what happens, but i would assume (and naively hope) that they are able to present themselves to local councils to get help. I haven't said anything about how much I paid "doing it the right way", because I haven't paid anything. My partner did it long before he met me. The question was what do migrants do when they get here, that is what my migrant partner did. So I'm not sure where you have got this idea that I'm one of those saying "what about the illegals," that's a disgusting attitude to have, and not one that I agree with.

If they don't have documentation they will be put in a detention centre until the Home Office decides whether to give them Leave to Remain in the UK.

This can take years, and they are not nice places either. It's not a pleasant process for them.

they are not illegal immigrants until any asylum claim has been settled

@LemonRoses This is true but single males in particular will often still be held in a detention centre until that point. Which can take years. They are often just left there. The system is utterly broken.

These threads depress me. The things people live through. I've met some asylum seekers, their stories were astounding.

And Napier Barracks was a disgrace.

@21Bee

I find it amazing people are complaining about the barracks that soldiers that sacrifice an awful lot for the people of this country are expected to live in.

Only the wealthiest of migrants can afford to pay people smugglers to get them here, those who live in abject poverty in refugee camps cannot afford to pay to get here.

Please dont make comment about things that you obviously know very little about.

Sometimes refugees are refugees from more than one place.

I worked with someone who's husband was Palestinian.

His family ran a business in Palestine when it was under British control, when Israel came into existence their business was taken away one day, their assets the second day and they were advised not to be home the third day so they packed what they could and headed for relatives in Jordan.

Unfortunately their relatives were in the West Bank which Israel attacked in 1967, so they fled again, this time to relatives in Cyprus.

My colleague met her husband in London but his family in Cyprus had to flee again, so headed for Kuwait.

They were in Kuwait when Sadam Hussain invaded.

This family may have had to move more than most but not all. Is it any wonder people head for Europe and North America?

Because France aren’t as generous to illegal immigrants as the U.K. is

In what way is the UK generous to illegal immigrants?

@Moonmelodies

To escape from France, would it not be safer to head into Germany, Spain or Belgium?

plenty do go to those countries

OP, I recommend you look up the term modern day slavery.

This will go a long way to answering your questions.

@strawberrydonuts

If they don't have documentation they will be put in a detention centre until the Home Office decides whether to give them Leave to Remain in the UK.

This can take years, and they are not nice places either. It's not a pleasant process for them.

Most asylum seekers enter without documentation because having it makes it too easy for them to be returned to their country if origin. Asylum seekers are not held for years in detention centres! That's absolutely rubbish. In fact if they're held for too long, they have,access to legal aid and can, and do, get compensation. Asylum aeekers don't automatically go to detention centres either. And detention centres are not just for asylum seekers. 40% of detainees are there for other reasons not related to asylum, such as expired visas, fake visas etc.

The UK has about 35,000 asylum claims each year. If your claim that they are all kept in centres for years was true, in three years that's 100,000 people, more than our entire prison population. It costs the govt about £100 per day for each detainee. That would equate to 10million a day. Or 3.5 billion a year. Even if you took just one year of asylum seekers all sat in detention, according to you, that would be over a billion pounds. Where do you get the idea that this is happening?

[quote fairgame84]@Jellycatspyjamas I don't work in that role anymore, it was years ago and if you can figure out the family from the information I've shared then you need to be working for MI5.[/quote]
@fairgame84 No longer working in a role doesn't mean confidentiality ceases to apply! You don't get to breach confidentiality just because you've left a safeguarding role. That's not how confidentiality works.

You've detailed enough for jigsaw ID. Those people and those close to them will be able to recognise themselves from what you've published here. That is what identifiable means. How would you feel if you found your retired GP discussing your private, confidential information online like this? Passing judgement? Inviting others to?

Aside from being grossly unethical, what you've done is precisely the kind of thing that leads to vulnerable people who need help not trusting professionals and not trusting reassurances of "confidentiality".

Because they've seen too many people like you who think nothing of breaching confidentiality if it suits them.