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Original poster

Who is dying from Covid now in the UK?

94 replies

YouJustFoldItIn · 16/07/2021 12:57

In the beginning, pre-vaccine and before the numbers got too great to report on individual cases, we were hearing of case by case stories of people passing away with (not necessarily of but with ) Covid.

Obviously the overwhelming majority were very elderly so the press tended to focus on the outliers who took everyone by surprise - younger people, NHS employees, people who had medical vulnerabilities., people from the ethnic demographics that seemed to be more susceptible etc.

All the NHS frontline workers will have been offered a vaccine now.

All the elderly will have been offered a vaccine now.

All the clinically obese will have been offered the vaccine now.

All people with any sort of medical condition that makes them more vulnerable to being particularly unwell or dying from Covid have been offered the vaccine now.

Even young people who are statistically very low risk have been offered the vaccine now. Obviously some still aren't taking it because they realise they are very low risk and are perhaps more wary of tiny or imagined risks from the vaccine itself than of the risks attached to having Covid.

There are a few cases of people dying in spite of being double vaccinated, but I believe they account for a minority of the recent deaths. So who is dying? If it's very young, ostensibly healthy, statistically very low risk people who have just been extremely unlucky, would we not be hearing about them in the media?

So who is dying now that the numbers are starting to climb again?

Are they unvaccinated elderly people who refused the vaccine?
Unvaccinated medically vulnerable people who refused the vaccine?
Healthy and/or young anti-vaxx refusniks?
People who were already ill with life limiting illnesses?
People who were unable to take the vaccine on medical grounds?
People who went into hospital because of some other issue, had a covid test as a formality and died from the original issue while being Covid positive evenif they were previously unaware of having Covid and possibly symptom free?

Why have we stopped talking about this, when previously the papers were full of the personal stories of many of those who had died yet now, there seems to be nothing.

OP posts:
Ginmakesitallok · 16/07/2021 13:01

I imagine that more people will be dying with covid rather than from covid now. With community rates being so high its inevitable that a proportion of people who die will have covid.

MySharonavirus · 16/07/2021 13:04

I can't answer your question, but just want to make a quick point that lots of people seem to have forgotten - not all under 40s who want the vaccine have had the chance to be double vaccinated yet. I'm 36 and I got my first as fast as one was available, but I'm still weeks away from my second, and then it'll be another three weeks till I'm protected by it.

JMAngel1 · 16/07/2021 13:13

Those who have refused vaccination.
Morbidly obese irrespective of vaccination status.

JMAngel1 · 16/07/2021 13:15

And your last scenario - covid detected but another pathology most likely cause of death.

mindutopia · 16/07/2021 13:17

My doctor friends have said that is the unvaccinated (likely older people who have refused vaccination or cannot be vaccinated, for whatever reason, rather than the unvaccinated 20 year olds) and vaccinated people who are likely older, already very ill and in hospital with something else.

Saidtoomuch · 16/07/2021 13:19

For a very small minority the vaccination just doesn't work. Like others said some haven't had chance to have the second vaccine. Many people early 40s will only just have had their second vaccine.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 16/07/2021 13:21

the thing is, if the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, then there will ALWAYS be people who die with covid, because people will continue to die of other things.

I dont think its helpful to count the deaths this way, i really dont, because that number will never ever reach 0 will it?

Surely we need to know who is dying OF it? Thats what matters isnt it?

Original poster
YouJustFoldItIn · 16/07/2021 13:23

Totally agree with you Getyourarseoff

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 16/07/2021 13:27

I just got off a ward yesterday where there were a number of people being treated for severe adverse reactions to the covid vaccine. As rare as it is, it was a bit weird being in the eye of that peculiar storm. It just adds more fire to the covid fight, though it is a rare event to have such adverse reactions. A few of my double vaxxed friends have had the Delta variant. None were hospitalised, which is a relief. Though they were more ill than they thought they'd be.

DoormatBob · 16/07/2021 13:27

I've wondered this too, there doesn't seem to be any particular stories about individuals.

If you saw ghe ITV News twitter feed then actors seem to be suffering at the moment but they sound OK considering they are on Oxygen!

Original poster
YouJustFoldItIn · 16/07/2021 13:27

And for the people where it's pretty clear and uncontested that they have died of covid, even if they had some other conditions or potentially aggravating factors that were being managed just fine and would not have contributed to their death at that particular time had they not had covid, then I think we need to see the stats on whether they were single or double vaccinated, or not vaccinated at all, and if not, why not.

There aren't that many of them so it shouldn't be difficult to keep abreast of it.

OP posts:
brittleheadgirl · 16/07/2021 13:29

My fil is mid 80s and refuses to have the vaccine, so I wonder if others like him are ending up in hospital?

copernicium · 16/07/2021 13:30

Surely it's time to start reporting just numbers of those dying FROM Covid?

taybert · 16/07/2021 13:33

Ascertaining a cause of death and drawing those lines is difficult though- take the example of a very elderly person who breaks their hip, goes into hospital, contracts covid, gets pneumonia and dies- it’s very reasonable to say that you could take the “contracts covid” bit out of the sentence and the outcome is the same, but how do you know? Plenty of people recover from fractured hips so who can say?

It’s also worth noting that the figures only count those within 28 days of a positive test result, and those on ventilators usually take longer than that to die, some people recover initially, go home and die of something they wouldn’t have had if they hadn’t had covid. So whilst there will definitely be people counted in the numbers who have tested positive but actually covid isn’t a factor, there will be those where it is definitely a factor who aren’t in those figures. Who knows if one cancels the other out?

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 16/07/2021 13:35

@taybert

Ascertaining a cause of death and drawing those lines is difficult though- take the example of a very elderly person who breaks their hip, goes into hospital, contracts covid, gets pneumonia and dies- it’s very reasonable to say that you could take the “contracts covid” bit out of the sentence and the outcome is the same, but how do you know? Plenty of people recover from fractured hips so who can say?

It’s also worth noting that the figures only count those within 28 days of a positive test result, and those on ventilators usually take longer than that to die, some people recover initially, go home and die of something they wouldn’t have had if they hadn’t had covid. So whilst there will definitely be people counted in the numbers who have tested positive but actually covid isn’t a factor, there will be those where it is definitely a factor who aren’t in those figures. Who knows if one cancels the other out?

Could they not have a died of covid full stop, covid as a factor of death like your example above, and died with covid ie someone who had it but no symptoms and it didnt cause it?
Nightlystroll · 16/07/2021 13:38

The medical director of our hospital makes a podcast every week as to what happening. He said the people in hospital are predominately under 60 and unvaccinated.

Youdiditanyway · 16/07/2021 13:41

Even though we have an annual flu vaccine, people still die. No vaccine is 100% effective, it’s the same as anything really. I’m going to guess it’s either people dying from other conditions who also happened to have covid at the same time. May also be unvaccinated older adults, there will inevitably be some who refused to have it. Doubt it’s young 20 somethings dying all of a sudden.

jinglebal · 16/07/2021 13:46

Not related to dying but news just said 4 in 10 covid patients were 19-39 (approx) & age is not a significant marker but i'm not sure if that's with vaccines of not.

Original poster
YouJustFoldItIn · 16/07/2021 13:47

Ascertaining a cause of death and drawing those lines is difficult though- take the example of a very elderly person who breaks their hip, goes into hospital, contracts covid, gets pneumonia and dies- it’s very reasonable to say that you could take the “contracts covid” bit out of the sentence and the outcome is the same, but how do you know? Plenty of people recover from fractured hips so who can say?

Of course. I fully understand that. But were they doubled vaccinated, or not? That's the issue. And if not, why not?

I am going to stick my neck out and guess that the people dying of covid now, as opposed to just with it, are people who probably should have prioritised the vaccine for themselves because of old age or other aggravating factors, but didn't.

There are still too many who are holding off on the vaccine. I really do think that as a drive to get the rest of the population vaccinated ASAP then if it's mostly the unvaccinated (by choice) who are dying or needing hospitalisation now then we should be told.

OP posts:
jinglebal · 16/07/2021 13:49

I know people in 30s still awaiting 2nd jab

BoxHedge · 16/07/2021 13:53

I’m really curious about this too.

With the numbers of deaths bring so low (touch wood) and the testing of people (who are not sick with COVID symptoms) so high, it would make sense if a lot of them are just people dying who’ve happened to test positively recently.

CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 16/07/2021 13:53

Plenty of people are still waiting for 2nd jabs. The daily rate of vaccination has been slowing since May (we have now been overtaken by Germany on numbers vaxed)

BoredZelda · 16/07/2021 13:57

I’m getting vibes that you think those who are dying now deserve it in some way.

Is the resultant suggestion that we just need to get on with it if people aren’t doing what you think they should to protect themselves?

Helspopje · 16/07/2021 13:58

All this with/of discussion is odd to me as someone who liked after countless people who got very sick or died of Covid.

Can’t think of a single person where Covid was not the prime cause of the demise. Perhaps people are getting confused by the way death certs are written with 1, 2a etc as the mechanism of death is 1 (pulmonary embolism, pneumonia other) and Covid is often as 2a as the cause of 1. Doesn’t mean that they ‘died of something whilst they happened to also have Covid at the same time that was nothing to do with it’.

Helspopje · 16/07/2021 13:58

Looked after aaargh