Why are surgeons such arrogant arseholes

[KirtonandKim]

*not all of them

Seasoned manager of over 25 years. Brought in to manage a team of surgeons who have ridiculous retention of staff (they can’t). Managers, operational, PAs and juniors - they cannot retain anyone.

2 months in and I can see why. They are without a doubt the most arrogant group of people I’ve ever had the misfortune of trying to manage. I’ve managed “bad” teams before - but nothing like this. And it’s just shrugged and accepted as “what surgeons are like”.

They know they are untouchable - they know they have us over a barrel and we can’t sack them. But the constant moaning and bitching and whining and utter lack of any insight into their own behaviour is fucking flabbergasting

God I can’t face work tomorrow

Detested not defeated

@Wheretobuy why is he a arsehole ? Because some NHS manager says that all surgeons are ? He gets on very well with his colleagues and his patients love him !

@KirtonandKim

Surgeon 1: I like to call him Australia surgeon. All he ever talks about is how good he would have it in Australia and how shit the NHS is compared to Australia.

At no point has he worked in Australia.

Or even attempted to work there.

This doesn’t stop him from constantly telling me how shit we are; this country is; the NHS is and how much better his life would be in Australia. I’ve asked him why he doesn’t move then. He can’t because the schools are shit

Tell him he's welcome to come Australia, thought I think they have to do bush service first. :o

@Member869894

I'm amazed the amount of posters who seem to think it's ok to be a twat because if you are confident/brilliant etc.

Darasda, calling someone a 'jumped up nurse' puts you in the twat category...

Not if you know the kind of person I'm talking about.

[quote TatianaBis]@darasda

Behold, the man is here, to prove the OP’s point.

“Jumped up nurse” eh?

DH is a surgeon, but he’s not a twat.[/quote]
You might want to read my subsequent post.

You sound like a bit of a twit in this post tbh.

“I'm a real (male) surgeon and read this thread with interest.

This manager sounds like the typical over-promoted jumped-up nurse who has been led to believe that she's like the fore(wo)man at a factory with the surgeons as the workers and the patients as items on a conveyor belt. They understand only numbers, go to endless meetings and pretend to be busy by sending and forwarding lots of emails which typically end up with things like 'Happy to discuss' or 'I'll diarise' yet another meeting.

These people are sadly typical and the NHS is riddled with them. Waste of taxpayers' money tbh.“

And a lot of a twit in the “oestrous environment” one.
Also your attacks on the OP reach the offensive personal remark level and the sexist abuse level in my judgment.
I am in the private sector and have meeting with drs and administrators. Yes there is a huge - staggering - problem of meetings about meetings but you can’t blame the OP and her colleagues for that. It’s structural and a product of what risks “count” in the NHS.

I just think it's an extreme job so the personality types who are attracted to it are quite likely to be 'outlier' types?

I wish management in my hospital were “jumped up nurses” because they’d maybe remember what it’s like for us on the shop floor. However, they’re mostly from upper management positions with absolutely zero nursing or medical background which is exceptionally difficult to work under.

I will always measure the decency and worth of someone at work based on how they treat more junior, lower status or less powerful people to them. So shouting, being rude or unkind, or generally dickish, refusing to help out or be a team player to the receptionists, the admin team, the security guard, the cleaners, your team?

Then no you won't have my respect or indeed my (urgently required, out of hours, doing you a favour, entirely up to me if I agree) help - which one day you may well need.

@KirtonandKim. The only way to cope is to stick up for yourself which you are obviously doing. Along of course being competent and efficient in your own role to ward off the sort of typical lazy and disrespectful attitude displayed by people like @darasda above.

Hope your next shift goes better OP.

He developed a blood phobia and could no longer operate
OMG what a crazy thing to happen!
(or is it common👀)

@darasda You might want to read my subsequent post.

Oh I did. It got worse:

this is a very oestrous environment into which I tread with care

I wouldn't suffer fools like this manager who started this thread very lightly. At all.

If this is you treading with care, I’d like to see you putting your foot in it.

Not sure I was being disrespectful, I certainly don't mean to be.

This is the thing about some surgeons. They tend to call a spade a spade and be fairly direct and some people don't like to hear it. It doesn't mean it's disrespectful.

People here on this thread who work in the NHS know exactly what I mean about people like this manager. And I must admit her post(s) did rather piss me off so I thought people outside the NHS need to hear some balance.

You need a bit of self belief to cut open someone’s body and rearrange their organs.

Sometimes it is a straightforward decision, lots of times it works out fine.

But plenty of times there is high risk to both options in a decision, plenty of times they can sway the patient to take a risk that may or may not save their life. Often the known risks mean by making the absolute right decision, unfortunately someone will die by your actions.

This is not for the faint hearted. To not decide causes pain and harm.

Accept that there will be a type that choose this and the job will mould some attributes..

Only intervene if it harms patients not to.

Realistically are you the one to judge that? If not then facilitate or change jobs.

@KirtonandKim as a hospital manager I am surprised you are letting rip about colleagues on social media. Not a great idea.

so I thought people outside the NHS need to hear some balance.

Did ye aye?

HappySwordMaker

I used to work for a surgeon 30 years ago as a young nurse who regularly used to chuck scalpels at me in a rage throw rubbish on the floor for me to pick up and take catheters out and just sling them over a radiator or on the floor. 30 years on nobody would DARE treat me like that. Id have them for breakfast.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

I used to work for a surgeon 30 years ago as a young nurse who regularly used to chuck scalpels at me in a rage throw rubbish on the floor for me to pick up and take catheters out and just sling them over a radiator or on the floor. 30 years on nobody would DARE treat me like that. Id have them for breakfast.

That's disgraceful and totally unacceptable. Would never happen now.

@o8T8o

He developed a blood phobia and could no longer operate OMG what a crazy thing to happen! (or is it common👀)

Only if it'll make a good television show I think.

'This is the thing about some surgeons. They tend to call a spade a spade and be fairly direct and some people don't like to hear it. It doesn't mean it's disrespectful'

Keep digging, Daradsa...

I read somewhere that to be a brilliant surgeon it is an advantage to be a sociopath.

[quote Annietheacrobat]@KirtonandKim as a hospital manager I am surprised you are letting rip about colleagues on social media. Not a great idea.[/quote]
I think it’s misjudged and also quite risky given the circling DM.

But anyone who’s met a lot of surgeons can’t say she doesn’t have a point.

Not all surgeons are like that or @darasda either, but some.

Posted too soon, apparently sociopaths are great surgeons because they don't let emotions get in the way of their work

I find surgeons fascinating. The surgeon who gave my son his cochlear implant surgery was a lovely man. His bedside manner wasn't particularly slick, he was quite abrupt but he was honest and forthright and kindly and that's what I want from a doctor. I could kiss his feet every day for what he did for my son.

All the surgeons I have come across have been really nice and professional.

OP I am on the side of the surgeons. If you want to change their working conditions they have a right to refuse (if it isn’t in their contracts).