You're invited to a friends for dinner at 7pm, what time do you ring their doorbell?

[suggestionsplease1]

Out of interest, feel free to post to the minute!

Let's say this is not a very, very close friend, so you don't have a pre-existing idea of their expectations / preferences for your arrival time.

After reading another thread on visitor etiquette on AIBU today I was wondering if mumsnetters can converge on a perfect time, or if there are widely differing ideas on this issue!

7:05 - 7:10

Actual experts. As opposed to say, just experts
Expert in place setting and arrivals gosh they must be busy,telling complicit and compliant how to behave

As I said manners and etiquette are unrelated
Manners are inclusionary
Etiquette is exclusionary

Is an actual expert superior to say an expert?
How does one gravitate to actual as a prefix

I can’t imagine living my life where you have to look up a book to tell you how to behave around other people

If that’s how the middle or upper classes want to live then they I am sure they are happy

Us working class people will crawl back into our hole where we have arrived at the time the hole owner has noted in their invitation and have a lovely time with no judgement

I was brought up not to be late for things as it’s rude. It shows a lack of respect for the other persons time and/or efforts

I was brought up not to be late for things as it’s rude. It shows a lack of respect for the other persons time and/or efforts

Which is absolutely fine but... it's just a social custom, just like turning up a little late to a dinner party is. And I was taught to do that, just as you were taught that being exactly on time is right in every situation. Neither are culturally universal or inherently superior - there isn't some objectively correct set of manners, they're completely culturally determined. It isn't 'right' to be 15 minutes late and nor is it 'right' to be on time or early - but either one might be the more socially expected and approved thing in a particular context.

I see arriving at 7.15 as rude. If I asked for 7. I'd expect you by 7. 10-15 minutes early is fine.

@Womencanlift

I can’t imagine living my life where you have to look up a book to tell you how to behave around other people

If that’s how the middle or upper classes want to live then they I am sure they are happy

Us working class people will crawl back into our hole where we have arrived at the time the hole owner has noted in their invitation and have a lovely time with no judgement

I was brought up not to be late for things as it’s rude. It shows a lack of respect for the other persons time and/or efforts

No darling, one already knows. It's bred into us from birth. One always arrived 10 minutes late for the teddy bears picnic!!🍰

If this thread has taught me one thing that a dinner party in my world is very different to a dinner party in other posters’ worlds

I will happily stay in mine to avoid the judgement that would inevitably come from not studying the ‘book of rules’ in preparation for the canapés and champagne

I’ve never read a book of rules in my life.

@Hardbackwriter

I was brought up not to be late for things as it’s rude. It shows a lack of respect for the other persons time and/or efforts

Which is absolutely fine but... it's just a social custom, just like turning up a little late to a dinner party is. And I was taught to do that, just as you were taught that being exactly on time is right in every situation. Neither are culturally universal or inherently superior - there isn't some objectively correct set of manners, they're completely culturally determined. It isn't 'right' to be 15 minutes late and nor is it 'right' to be on time or early - but either one might be the more socially expected and approved thing in a particular context.

Yes, this.

It isn’t the end of the world, really, is it.

I’ll continue being horribly rude in other people’s eyes, and they’ll continue being just as rude in mine. However it’s likely that we’ll all be considered quite polite in the circles we move in.

Hopefully we won’t overlap too often.

Any contact with experts or actual experts for that matter

I'm just laughing to myself, remembering the time we were in France and turned up to our restaurant booking 15 minutes early, thinking we could just have a drink and wait.
The staff, including the kitchen staff, were all outside having a drink and a smoke and everso politely asked us to bugger off and come back at our actual booking time! Which we did with good grace.

@RamItBunty I think a PP asked a good question: when you go to dinner parties and arrive dead on time are you the first one there or do you join the others arriving at the door at the same time?

If the latter, you’ve found a group that do things as you do - wonderful. If its the former then perhaps you should pay attention to this thread.

Forcing your host to accommodate your unusual arrival is both the height of bad manners and poor etiquette.

7:02

Don’t do a convoluted dance hoping hints & etiquette mean that guests will arrive late

The hints can’t be that convoluted: I’ve hosted 100’s of dinners, in numerous countries across three continents. I could count on one hand the occasions when guests haven’t arrived within the “window”.

@Thekindofwindowsfaceslookinat

I'm starting to think that this thread is probably split between people who have given/attended dinner parties as I know them to be, and those who choose not to.

If dinner parties in the traditional(ish) sense - canapés, Champagne, several courses, wine etc - aren't your thing, then fair enough; the 15 minute window perhaps makes little sense!

I think this could be part of it. I have answered as though I was hosting friends for dinner (pre Covid a regular, several times a week occasion) rather than an all singing, all dancing dinner party which would only be for a special occasion. If it was a full dinner party then I would expect to have a period of drinks and nibbles and people could arrive within a window. I still wouldn't expect people to deliberately sit outside for 15 minutes if they arrived on the dot of 7 though 😂

@RamItBunty

This is essentially a vanity dance, guests must arrive late,because host is so whizzy and popular that inevitably they are running late All that candle lighting,the positioning of the jo malone candles,the fussy place setting need to look just so, requires guests to intuitively know to be late. To engage in a convoluted dance

If you know as a host 7pm is cutting it too soon, realistically make it 720 and inform guests that’s the actual arrival time

No Jo Malone candles in a dining room, surely? The scent would be too strong for a mealtime and could impact on the bouquet, making the wine less palatable.

You’re indeed correct an actual expert has probably written a chapter on the positioning of the jo malone candles and the decanted wine. Certainty there will be jo malone candles light, and machinations regard their strategic placement will inevitably cause the host to be late.

@PegasusReturns regard arrival, I’ve met other guests arriving at same time too, and upon being ushered in others are already there too

@RamItBunty. Well then being dead on time works in your circle. Great.

For the vast majority of people on this thread and those it doesn’t work.

That’s quite an expansive and inaccurate statement but clearly you need to validate your own POV

6.50
Im always early

@doadeer

6.50 Im always early

But I should say... If its a friend that's always late I would consciously be late.

In my family on time means 15 mins early so we are always ready. But if I knew someone wasn't like this I would fight hard not to be early lol

7.03

Between 7 and 7.10pm unless delayed unexpectedly.