To those who voted for Brexit

[HappyClappy1]

Are you happy with your decision?

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Again, no one was voting with the wish to make things bad for you. But you can't expect people to think solely from your perspective and put you above all other considerations that they have when voting on the future of their own country.

Well ll I’m sure my PIL didn’t vite brexit to make life harder. And no I’m sure they didn’t think about the consequences in myself and their grand children because they believed the politicians who told them I would be ok (and anyway, it wasn’t about ME was it? Just all of ‘those’ people….)

But as I said, you can’t also expect also expect people whose life has been changed so badly to just ‘move on/forgive’ because
1- a very small majority wanted that
2- they don’t want to hear about the hurt they have caused.

It’s not enough to say ‘we didn’t want that/it shouldn’t have been like this’. You can’t expect people whose life has been changed so dramatically to just shrugged it off and not judge people who voted for something to had such a consequence on their life.

And I didn’t mean just EU citizens. I mean BRITISH people in Europe. I mean people who had build their business on the freedom of movement and goods, the ones who are facing loosing their income and business. The ones who are currently banging their heads on the wall at the complexity of the custom system, a system so complex even HMRC doesn’t know how it works. The people in NI who feel Irish or just as Irish as they feel BRITISH. And again the people in NI struggling wit h empty shelves etc…
The reality is that the impact is far and wide. Yes of course, from the average person in England, it probably hasn’t made a big difference. It’s not that visible. But dig out a bit more and you will see it has impacted many people at all sorts of different levels. And tbh many people could see many of those negative impact at the time of the campaign (the issue with NI was a big one amongst others)

Having said that, yes it might well also bring a lot of positives. In the future. I personally think it will depend a lot on how it’s actually handled by said politicians. But you can’t just expect people who have been negatively affected NOW to be happy and cheery that everything will be fine (in some distant future).

But tbh I don’t think things will be ‘fine’ until the future is approached as a whole country rather than ‘Brexiters’ imposing their view and telling ‘r ainers’ to get over it. The majority was too small to do that.

I do agree that you can't just shrug off and be happy about something which wasn't your choice and which affects you negatively. Honestly, I think we all thought the government would handle things better - there was no intention to hurt you or cause this level of difficulty. We were asked a question about which direction we wanted our country to head in and we answered it with the knowledge we had available and without having the level of expertise as to how it would be carried out. The mistake was in believing the government did possess this level of expertise and that they had a plan.
I do still think that something this difficult to leave was something we shouldn't have been so deeply embroiled in in the first place and I still think the EU is not a positive organisation for the UK in the long term. I think we have a chance to set up a better system. But yes, it ultimately depends on who our politicians are. At present they are not up to the job. Or don't care to be.
Leavers do tell remainers to get over it because remainers are always calling leavers thick/racist/gammon. Which is unfair and untrue. Brexiteers aren't imposing their view - we are asking that the result be respected and for the political opposition to stop trying to undo it.

many Brits living in the EU felt their security came under threat

Someone on here told me I had betrayed England by moving to Europe and marrying a foreigner.

The mistake was in believing the government did possess this level of expertise and that they had a plan

And wilfully ignoring all the evidence not only that the government had not a fucking clue, but all the outright corruption surrounding the referendum.

we are asking that the result be respected

How can it be respected when it hurts so many? What compensates the suffering of PPs and the millions like her that merits respect?

It has to be respected because the majority want to leave the EU. And it's not leaving which is causing issues for the OP - it's govt failure to assure her security which is the issue.

How can the result be respected when there are no benefits only negatives? Even after all this time no one can come up with a list of benefits.

I know this is old ground, but the "majority" win deliberately excluded several million key stakeholders who you said upthread should have been given the vote, and was won with considerable evidence of corruption. It takes more than a mere majority to make an election licit - just look at the 99% results in North Korea and the like. Massive majorities, but hardly worthy of respect.

You can accept something without ever respecting it.

The govt did what they did to PP on the Brexit mandate. It isn’t a dictatorship. They’re doing what they’re doing because people want them to. You can’t ask people to respect that.

@Treehaus

Weren't lots of catastrophic things supposed to have happened by now?

I think may people are about to have their eyes opened at the true picture when restrictions are lifted. It's hardly been a bit Al living environment for people to understand the consequences so far has it?

But I'll tell you what's been catastrophic in our house. We bought a dishwasher in February and it's still not been delivered...company have no idea when they will receive them. By Jove! The arguments in this house about dishes has almost led to divorce

I do think that all stakeholders should have been allowed to vote. But that is my personal view and had it altered the result I would have accepted it. Others disagree though as to who should have been allowed to vote and there will be those who feel only UK citizens should decide the future of the UK, others who think only people who actually live here or whose living situation will change (so UK citizens in the EU for ex). I think it's a stretch to compare it to North Korea though. It was the government's choice to decide who got to vote and DC was in favour of remain, so I don't know why he made those choices.

So you think that it is not right that UK resident EU citizens and EU resident Brits were denied a vote and you simultaneously think the flawed result which disproportionately hurts those people commands respect from those very people?

I'm saying that I personally would have allowed all stakeholders to vote, but other people view it differently. I can equally see the argument that only UK citizens should vote on the UK's future. If say Spain was voting on this issue would they have offered votes to the Brits who live there? Maybe, maybe not. But even if not allowing a vote, I wish it had not been made so hard for EU citizens already living here, to remain here. I do agree that they have been treated unfairly and I do genuinely wish their experience had been better. That security was important to them and it ought to have been given freely and easily.
I don't know if the result would have been different had the selection criteria for voting been altered - it's hard to prove that now, I think. We don't even know what the result would have been if all those eligible had actually voted.
But of the people who did vote, did so in good faith and yes I think the result has to be adhered to.
Or are you proposing we have another vote? Because I can't see that ending well.

They voted in good faith in a referendum that was so tainted that had it been legally binding, it would’ve been struck down. Does that not trouble you for just a second?

Btw the rules are being changed so that British citizens living overseas CAN vote in UK elections, precisely because the referendum highlighted how flawed the system was. The result is so invalid it’s a joke.

That was actually a pledge in Cameron’s pre-referendum manifesto. Ironic, huh?

I'm happy. Brexit and travel situation due to Covid are separate issues. The behaviour of the EU around jabs surely shone a light on the whole set up?

You had a PM who was in favour of remaining and he set the terms of the vote - who was eligible to vote, whether a straight forward majority would trigger leave or whether there should have been a set percentage minimum, whether vote participation had to be at a set level for the result to count etc.
All I can tell you is what I said before - I thought about the direction we were heading, what I liked/didn't like about EU membership and I voted accordingly, on the basis of what the govt agreed to.
What do think should happen now?

@areoplanecakerake - what positives have you seen and what are you still expecting?

What do think should happen now?

Nothing. You played your part and there's absolutely nothing you can do now. Enjoy your pie in the sky and bright sunny future. Meanwhile we need to figure out plan B and plan C out of this clusterfuck. I don't expect you to understand, I don't expect you to care. But don't expect my understanding or respect either.

What do I think should happen now?

In the short term, removal of hostile settled status threats and deadlines. In Spain, any Brit there before Brexit is automatically granted right to remain, they don’t need to do anything. Apologies and positive messaging for EU citizens resident in Britain and the people of NI and swift customs arrangements.

In the mid to long term, a suitable opposition and election reforms. It’s shameful that Belarus is the only other European “democracy” to use fptp.

And long long term (post inevitable break up of UK) big independent inquiry (like Iraq war).

But tbh I don’t think things will be ‘fine’ until the future is approached as a whole country rather than ‘Brexiters’ imposing their view and telling ‘r ainers’ to get over it. The majority was too small to do that.

We are approaching it as a whole country though - it's only goady threads like this that perpetuate the them and us split.

I agree with you that the people who've been messed around by politicians should have that put right immediately. I would also like to see electoral reform - what we have isn't working.
Not sure about an enquiry long in the future - to me the point of an enquiry is to hold politicians to account for deliberate wrongdoing or negligence. I can't see that happening tbh.

Well it would be to uncover truth, answer concerns and yes, hold people to account. We already know that vote leave broke electoral law to get the vote and that the British govt broke international law during the implementation of Brexit itself. Parliament was prorogued.

If you believe in Brexit, doesn’t it bother you that it’s so… dirty? That the way it has been handled has delegitimized the thing itself?

Well herein lies the problem. Millions of people voted in good faith, trusting that everything was done as it should be. Those people still believe in and want the result they voted for. If you had another vote, would the public have faith in the result? Idk.
We always have inquiries, yet Politicians are never held to any meaningful account. DC is still out in the world attempting to make even more money by dubious means. Nothing will happen. There doesn't seem to be the infrastructure to deal with bad management at govt level. And we have a woeful opposition.
But to answer your question,yes it does bother me. I believe in democracy and the legitimacy of results being beyond question