UK has had more deaths than births

[Gingernaut]

The population has officially shrunk.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57600757

The last time deaths outnumbered births was 1976

Interesting

Have a look at Japan.

Fantastic. Fewer people is exactly what this planet needs.

@aurynne

Fantastic. Fewer people is exactly what this planet needs.

Possibly not the most tasteful thing to say towards the end of a global pandemic?

this planet is so hugely overpopulated its not a huge problem ,

Not a problem at all

Except to all the people who have unfortunately lost their lives prematurely.

Have some consideration for those who have lost loved ones.

Not just lost lives through Covid but through not receiving timely healthcare for other conditions as a secondary impact of the pandemic.

Curious to know how many children all the “fantastic, the Earth’s overpopulated” brigade have. Or if they list any loved ones in this pandemic.

From another article on the topic though, "Who pays tax in a massively aged world? Who pays for healthcare for the elderly? Who looks after the elderly? Will people still be able to retire from work?".

Sadly we couldn't have children - we won't have anyone who might want to support us when we're elderly. We're also not wealthy like a lot of mumsnet seems to be. Therefore this sort of thing does worry me a little bit.

@Vanishun

From another article on the topic though, "Who pays tax in a massively aged world? Who pays for healthcare for the elderly? Who looks after the elderly? Will people still be able to retire from work?".

Sadly we couldn't have children - we won't have anyone who might want to support us when we're elderly. We're also not wealthy like a lot of mumsnet seems to be. Therefore this sort of thing does worry me a little bit.

I think that's an odd way to think. I have a child but I certainly don't expect him to support me when I'm older, that's not why I had him. I'm not wealthy at all, I'm a single parent.

No of course no one has a child just to support them in their old age (or at least I hope they don't!) - but I think if you have a family, the likelihood is that you'll support each other surely? Look out for each other at least? Most people I know seem to.

On a wider level though, having an older society isn't necessarily a wonderful thing for everyone in it. (Even if it is good for the planet which is an upside.)

That's a good thing.

Our modern Western attitude to loss of life being tragic interests me as dying is natural and comes to all living things. Our planet has way too many human beings living on it.

I didnt have children to look after me specifically but i do get that if my generation wants to stop working then there needs to be some others to do work whether its refuse collection, food growing and distribution, utilities etc. I also assume my pension isnt an actual pot of gold coins, So it will rely on a younger workforce too make it actually exist.
I suppose i know that large bits of the world are becoming less habitable so immigration will be necessary making it ok. Although i dont lnow how invested a large immigrant population would be in my state pension in particular..

Dying isn't a difficult thing at all, it's how we die that can be very difficult. Losing people we love is the biggest pain it's possible to feel but that pain is part and parcel of being alive; of love.

Interesting. I wonder if the birth rate will continue to fall or remain stable.
Far more people are leaving it later to have children. I see a lot of older dads far more than when I was at school as attitudes seen to have changed. I also see a lot of women with older partners again resulting in children having older dads and far more widowed women.
The chances of parents staying together are slim, maybe a factor in birth rates. Also far more unmarried parents at the time of birth maybe the pressure to have a child isn't there as much as it used to be.
Plenty of people still having children though, we are hardly underpopulated.

It is worrying though. Yes we have an overpopulated planet BUT there have been studies yo show that it's likely the global population will peak mid century then will start to fall so governments need to plan for that. How will they generate enough tax to pay for pensions and care of a larger elderly population? It's not as simple as saying you shouldn't have kids so they can look after you, it's about the impact on the economy unless governments take action now.

Interestingly, projections seem to imply that the world's population will start declining by the end of the century - growth rates almost everywhere in the world have already started slowing down significantly. China for example is now facing the prospect of an ageing population as the loosening of the one cild policy is failing to increase birth rates sufficiently. Within my lifetime we'll probably need to start solving problems related population decline, including financing old age, what to do with no longer needed housing etc.

@joystir59

Our modern Western attitude to loss of life being tragic interests me as dying is natural and comes to all living things. Our planet has way too many human beings living on it.

Errr it's not just "the west" that finds loss of life tragic. Just because the media portrays hundreds dying in Africa or the middle East as just another statistic doesn't mean that's how the people there feel about it...

Hopefully the UK will embrace immigration to counter the aging population.

The world is changing though. More and more jobs are becoming automated. We no longer need a massive population of factory workers and clerks to keep the country going. We probably won’t even need call centres full of staff soon.

We will still need careers, doctors, nurses, police, etc. to do the more ‘human’ roles but we wouldn’t need as many working people as we do now to keep the economy going.

Also, I have no children and plan not to. I have thought about my old age and I genuinely hope that by the time I am old enough to require someone else to look after me, laws will have changed and I will have euthanasia as a potential option. I’m practical about life and death and I would rather go quickly and a bit prematurely than fade away slowly in a care home,

I, of course, wouldn’t expect anyone else to do/feel the same and of course find the increased deaths due to Covid incredibly sad.

Good. On an individual level it's very sad but on an environmental level it's good news. And to answer a PP - I have no kids.

Interesting thread. I wonder whether it will prove to be a covid blip though and level of thereafter.

Good
Myself, I have one child by choice

The issue that should worry everyone is that our economy is currently set up for the young to support the old. That's why we had immigration it was largely young people coming here to work.
The nhs has an ageing workforce with high numbers of people retiring.

We need less people on the planet but enough people to keep the economy and services going.

@aurynne

Fantastic. Fewer people is exactly what this planet needs.

And just a bit insensitive to those of us who have had a miscarriage or still birth. Not actually 'fantastic' for me.

Environmentally it's excellent news.

Economically, the whole model will need to change. But it will anyway when climate change really starts to bite.

Childfree by choice- big part of that is for environmental reasons.