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Original poster

UK has had more deaths than births

106 replies

Gingernaut · 25/06/2021 00:05

The population has officially shrunk.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57600757

The last time deaths outnumbered births was 1976

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 23:34

@Angelica789

It’s a disaster from an economic point of view. There will be fewer people working and more elderly people to support. We will have to accept more immigration to make up the shortfall.
Just a Ponzi scheme though.

Robots will do the jobs 🤖 well enough.

We also need to stop the contradicting messages. The concerns about overpopulation/elderly care - then big campaigns telling people to give up sugar, smoking etc 'because it shortens your life'...

Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 23:37

We will have to accept more immigration to make up the shortfall.

If we do this, we'll have to deal with people like the Amersham and Chesham Nimbys. People need housing. In London alone (the capital of homelessness) 165,000 homeless people need housing. They've got to go somewhere.

Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 23:39

@wowhie

this planet is so hugely overpopulated its not a huge problem

Depends on the country. Take the UK, an ageing population is a problem. Who will do the jobs & pay taxes?

The robots will do the jobs (and hopefully pay the taxes).
B0YS · 25/06/2021 23:44

Makes me feel better about having three children & possibly a fourth Grin

In all seriousness, this is such a dividing topic. I have no idea what to think, is this a good thing or a bad thing? Surely if there are less people then eventually there will be less elderly so it balances it out?

Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 23:48

As for the Covid deaths. A) Most were not on their way out, B) Many thousands were under 65, working age people with well managed underlying conditions.

And C) There's no need to condemn someone to a Covid death, which is often an unpleasant way to go.

We should follow the humane and compassionate lead of other countries. Allow assisted suicide and euthanasia. Currently the option of a good death - one that is planned in advance (so giving you time to organise your affairs, day your goodbyes), painless and peaceful - is confined to those with money and ability to travel, to arrange a Dignitas death abroad.

Tealightsandd · 25/06/2021 23:52

Perhaps humans should agree to let our species die out naturally. The robots can care for the final cohort of elderly humans.

TentTalk · 26/06/2021 00:47

@aurynne

Fantastic. Fewer people is exactly what this planet needs.
My thoughts exactly
NiceGerbil · 26/06/2021 01:02

@Tealightsandd

Perhaps humans should agree to let our species die out naturally. The robots can care for the final cohort of elderly humans.
How to you plan to persuade the human race to do that?
wowhie · 26/06/2021 08:01

Surely if there are less people then eventually there will be less elderly so it balances it out?
It's the bit in between that's actually quite scary. " By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over," Now we already have a funding crisis in social care & the NHS is crumbling. We desperately need immigrants but as @Tealightsandd makes the point lots don't want that. Then you have young people having to pay more for an education, a house, start saving for a pension whilst young & probably never see a state one. Honestly if I was young now I'd be off to another country as the burden will be too high. Obviously that just exacerbates the problem.

DGRossetti · 26/06/2021 08:15

Perhaps humans should agree to let our species die out naturally. The robots can care for the final cohort of elderly humans.

How to you plan to persuade the human race to do that?

Nature always finds a way.

Melitza · 26/06/2021 10:14

@wowhie

Surely if there are less people then eventually there will be less elderly so it balances it out? It's the bit in between that's actually quite scary. " By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over," Now we already have a funding crisis in social care & the NHS is crumbling. We desperately need immigrants but as *@Tealightsandd* makes the point lots don't want that. Then you have young people having to pay more for an education, a house, start saving for a pension whilst young & probably never see a state one. Honestly if I was young now I'd be off to another country as the burden will be too high. Obviously that just exacerbates the problem.
As state pension age is rising many 65 years plus will still be working. Both my parents worked well into their 70's by choice. I think its time to base an elderly population on 75 or over. And perhaps those who choose to retire early should continue paying NI until state pension age as they do in France.
CastawayQueen · 26/06/2021 10:23

@wowhie

Surely if there are less people then eventually there will be less elderly so it balances it out? It's the bit in between that's actually quite scary. " By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over," Now we already have a funding crisis in social care & the NHS is crumbling. We desperately need immigrants but as *@Tealightsandd* makes the point lots don't want that. Then you have young people having to pay more for an education, a house, start saving for a pension whilst young & probably never see a state one. Honestly if I was young now I'd be off to another country as the burden will be too high. Obviously that just exacerbates the problem.
Raise the retirement age to 75 and make people pay for their own care. Which is already being done by councils taking assets after death. In fact councils selling off all those family homes might actually lower housing prices. As an immigrant myself the answer is not more immigration because it just exacerbates the issue. These immigrants will become old in future and then you’ll need even more people to care for them ...

The whole model of human life stages need to change. No longer uni, work one career and then retire. Retraining, multiple careers etc should be the norm.

CastawayQueen · 26/06/2021 10:23

@Melitza exactly, cross posted

wowhie · 26/06/2021 10:30

I do think people should pay for their care & prescriptions should be mean tested not just automatically free for older people but the electorate won't go for that. Nonetheless if I was young I would still bugger off as there is way too much generational inequality here & it's only going to get harder.

No longer uni, work one career and then retire

I don't think that is the model today is it? I'm in my 30s & have switched careers as have many people I know.

MilduraS · 26/06/2021 10:47

I think Covid has impacted birth rates as well as death rates. I wouldn't have wanted to give birth over the past year and I'm sure many women felt the same. The thought of giving birth alone terrifies me. I remember quite early in the pandemic reading the story of a woman who lost her baby at 6 months. Her husband had to wait in the car during the appointment and when they realised she'd lost the baby all he got was a phonecall in the car. He wasn't allowed in to support her while she gave birth.

wowhie · 26/06/2021 10:47

That is shocking

Whoarethewho · 26/06/2021 10:51

Good too many people anyway. We need a managed reduction.

OldChinaJug · 26/06/2021 10:54

@MilduraS

I think Covid has impacted birth rates as well as death rates. I wouldn't have wanted to give birth over the past year and I'm sure many women felt the same. The thought of giving birth alone terrifies me. I remember quite early in the pandemic reading the story of a woman who lost her baby at 6 months. Her husband had to wait in the car during the appointment and when they realised she'd lost the baby all he got was a phonecall in the car. He wasn't allowed in to support her while she gave birth.
What a horrifically sad story.

I know we logically knew it's been happening but, to me, these are the tragedies of the pandemic - the people who couldn't attend funerals or be with loved ones to support them.

No one lives forever - death is an inescapable part of life - but there are things we can do to support each other through these times and so many people were denied this.

OldChinaJug · 26/06/2021 10:55

@DGRossetti

Perhaps humans should agree to let our species die out naturally. The robots can care for the final cohort of elderly humans.

How to you plan to persuade the human race to do that?

Nature always finds a way.

Nature always finds a way.

Absolutely.

Sloth66 · 26/06/2021 10:59

Agree with PP , a managed reduction is needed as the world is so overpopulated. Retirement age has been raised, people are working longer.

wowhie · 26/06/2021 11:04

If population needs to be reduced should we keep encouraging people to not reproduce or making it harder for them economically whilst simultaneously keeping older people alive for as long as possible?

MrsPear · 26/06/2021 11:25

All the people who says fabulous do you understand how national insurance or income tax work? If we don’t have a good size working population to cover the retired folk then quite frankly we are screwed.

newnortherner111 · 26/06/2021 11:39

Birth rates may have declined, but last year (maybe 2021) is (are) an outlier(s) solely caused by the inaction of the Prime Minister and the deaths that resulted.

It was estimated that those who died of Covid 19 would have lived another ten years on average had they not caught the virus. Even if it was only two or three years before another disease or condition would have led to their death, the misogynistic immoral liar Mr Johnson and his accomplices have robbed many people of a few more years of life, and their families of a normal funeral to enable part of the grieving process.

thecatsthecats · 26/06/2021 11:39

@joystir59

Our modern Western attitude to loss of life being tragic interests me as dying is natural and comes to all living things. Our planet has way too many human beings living on it.
Human beings do certainly seem to think they're immune from the normal life cycle.

A disease wipes out the foxes, rabbit population booms, grass overeaten, the cat population thrives due to all the extra rabbits, cats eat all the rabbits, no more rabbits, cats die off. Grass and vegetation recovers... Etc.

Humans have for a large part opted out of this wheel of fortune by resource domination, medication etc, but it is absolutely normal. We are the aberration by opting out.

SamusIsAGirl · 26/06/2021 11:45

Perhaps it's time to consign the Hostile Atmosphere policy to immigration to the dustbin where it should have never emerged.

Seems the current Tory party is for people who want to be the richest corpse in the graveyard. The most you can hope for is that react, not act.