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Original poster

Would you try and fight this ticket?

107 replies

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 06:34

My mum is a fit, competent 70 something and a safe steady driver, never had an accident in 50 years of driving.

She does limited mileage these days and drives an old car, that she's had since new and is properly maintained, serviced every year etc.

She's also one of those people who wouldn't dream of driving anywhere, even moving the car off the drive, without a seatbelt. In fact she and Dad were wearing seatbelts routinely long before it was law and Dsis and I had car seats in the 70s when it was really very unusual.

Anyway, she was stopped by police for the first time ever. They wanted to inspect the car. I suspect as it's so old they expected to be able to issue a ticket for some fault or other, but they didn't find one.

Then, after asking her to get out of the car (thus removing her seatbelt) they've issued a fixed penalty for not wearing a seatbelt. It's £100, but can increase to £500 if you go to court.

She's furious at the corruption injustice, but also feels powerless. Anyone who knows her could vouch for the fact that she always wears a seatbelt, but there's no proof she was doing on this occasion.

Is there anything she can do? Would you just pay up?

OP posts:

Imnothereforthedrama · 09/06/2021 07:34

I’d definitely look into this , if what your mum said is correct and if you say it is op then that’s disgusting. I do get why some on here are sceptical because it doesn’t make sense but why would you mum lie she could say I took it off for a second or anything but she claims was told to get out of the car of course you have to take your seat belt off . I do suspect there maybe more to this but absolutely investigate.

Imnothereforthedrama · 09/06/2021 07:35

The problem is that at the moment, it's your mum's word against theirs.

But isn’t that the point people in authority can’t go around making shit up .

Izzadoraduncancan · 09/06/2021 07:41

My husband had a version of this happen.

Stopped by police in his van. Asked to show his tax disc, so he took of his seat belt so he could lean over to reach it. Police then started to tell him off for not wearing the belt. Took a while for the policeman to accept the reason the belt had been removed was for DH to do as requested

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Driving & parking

rslsys · 09/06/2021 07:45

Ask to see the police body cam footage. That should show what they saw.

Arbadacarba · 09/06/2021 07:48

@Imnothereforthedrama

The problem is that at the moment, it's your mum's word against theirs.

But isn’t that the point people in authority can’t go around making shit up .

No, absolutely, but if it goes to court the OP and her mum will need to present some kind of evidence-based case. How is the person trying the case supposed to decide if it just comes down to two parties saying different things?

OP, it may be worth posting a question in the 'Legal' topic about whether you'd have a case that would stand up.

legotruck · 09/06/2021 07:50

@Izzadoraduncancan

My husband had a version of this happen.

Weird. Why didn't they just walk round and look at it?

Original poster

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 07:50

@Vanishun

I have a relative in the police and asked about this a while back - they definitely don't have targets (for obvious reasons).

I'm sure some police officers are arseholes, I'm just not sure why they'd both go on with it, or what kind of kick they'd get out of making stuff up about old ladies.

No I don't understand why another police officer would have allowed it to happen, if it was one bad egg either, but we've seen footage of much worse incidents than this, where that's exactly what did happen.

OP posts:

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 09/06/2021 07:51

I'm not always the biggest fan of the police, particularly all the arsiness during covid, but that sounds really unlikely. As another poster said, they would have pointed out that she wasn't wearing a seatbelt when she was sat there, without a seatbelt on. If she actually was wearing a seatbelt, the pc's body-cam would show this, if she's going to challenge it.

CornishTiger · 09/06/2021 07:55

Police body cam should have been on. As would rear and front camera vehicle footage. I’d challenge it.

stayathomegardener · 09/06/2021 07:56

I think if you always wear a seatbelt it's almost impossible to drive without one. I'm really forgetful but to me seatbelts are as automatic as turning the ignition key so I know where you are coming from.

I'd challenge.

Ickythefirebobby · 09/06/2021 07:58

@DirectionsForUse

OK so why did someone who always without fail wears a seatbelt, out of habit only get told she wasn't wearing one after getting out of the car?

It’s unlikely they would stop a car looking for faults for no reason. It’s generally clear to see whether a car is well cared for, or an absolute shed without actually stopping it, regardless of its age. There’s no way they have a quota of tickets to reach. The Police are so short staffed they have better things to do than stop motorists for absolutely no reason, despite what you might read in the daily mail.

It’s natural that you would think your mum is the safest most law abiding driver. The reality is that old people don’t always remember to put their seatbelts on. Sometimes they drive too slowly, which in itself is a danger to other road users.

Your repeat insistence that your mum always wears her seatbelt, is a good driver, is a safe driver etc is totally irrelevant because you were there.

I would be more concerned as to whether this is a first sign that your mum’s mind is deteriorating. This is the more likely explanation.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s highly unlikely that your mum has been fitted up. Why don’t you speak to the officer and see whether there was anything about her manner of driving, or behaviour when they spoke to her, that should cause concern in terms of possible mental deterioration.

JorisBonson · 09/06/2021 07:58

@legotruck

I would ask yourself why you think 2 police officers have colluded to fine an old lady, risking their careers. It doesn't seem likely, does it? To what benefit?

She wasn't wearing her seatbelt is the much more likely explanation.

This. All day this.

Original poster

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 07:58

OK, so worth asking for the bodycam footage at least and see from there. I agree it's probably not worth the aggravation but OTOH who is going to hold those in authority to account if not us?

Do they always have them on or will it be like when I worked for a large financial institution and we could never find the telephone recording if it showed we were in the wrong ?

OP posts:

Original poster

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 08:00

@stayathomegardener

This is how I feel. If I didn't have a seatbelt on, after decades of always wearing one it just feels all wrong. I wouldn't get off the drive.

OP posts:

Faranth · 09/06/2021 08:00

Did she perhaps pull over and take the seat belt off before the officer got to the window? Lots of people click the seatbelt off as part of the handbrake on, engine off, etc movements. Could it have been automatic on her part, but the police officer didn't see her wearing it?

DP got a fine for no seat belt. He was driving with a trailer on a narrow lane, met a police car, took seatbelt off to reverse for them (legal, although I wouldn't...) but had to pull forward 5 feet to let them past the trailer. He hadn't put the seatbelt back on and they stopped and fined him! That stung.

Queenoftheashes · 09/06/2021 08:00

I would challenge. She said she was wearing a seatbelt. Why wouldn’t she have been? Also if the police pull you over and you aren’t wearing one you’re going to suddenly become really conscious that you aren’t wearing one.

Zzelda · 09/06/2021 08:04

@Rillington

I would fight it all the way. Some police officers are corrupt. If their car was nearby it will have recorded the event on camera.

Corruption usually implies that there is something to be gained by the corrupt officers. What would they gain from this?

Indoctro · 09/06/2021 08:06

Your mother is 70, she could well have memory issues or early onset of dementia etc. I would think she genuinely does think she had a seatbelt on so not lying but unfortunately she didn't and her memory is the issue here.

Original poster

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 08:08

They do keep and publish stats for this kind of thing though. Our local police FB often has things about the number of people fined for mobile phone use etc, so there is a gain, if only in making their stats look better.

OP posts:

BirthdayCakeBelly · 09/06/2021 08:09

Did she challenge them at the time? My MiL is over 70 and still driving. She’s very proud of her clean record and car maintenance.
If an officer accused her of not wearing her seat belt she would firmly challenge them, get badge numbers and would have taken it further before the ink was even dry.

I’d support her in challenging the ticket. For my MiL it would be worth the £500 to protest her innocence. She’d never just pay it if she believed she was right.

HerMammy · 09/06/2021 08:09

I’d challenge it, I was stopped and given a ticket for going through a red light; which I did not do.
Went to court and the judge agreed the police had misinterpreted the road layout and light sequence (they weren’t from this area and it is a tricky junction) ticket was dismissed.

legotruck · 09/06/2021 08:10

@DirectionsForUse

Do you really think they were sent out to scew that stats? Seriously? How many officers do you think were involved in this dodgy dealing here?

Come on, admit it, your mother made a mistake.

ApolloandDaphne · 09/06/2021 08:13

If it happened exactly as she said it did then I would challenge it.

Original poster

DirectionsForUse · 09/06/2021 08:14

People in all walks of life fix their stats. It's definitely not a completely unlikely scenario. Mum just doesn't make these kinds of mistakes and she's furious. If she was in any doubt she'd admit it.

OP posts:

WeatherwaxOn · 09/06/2021 08:15

I think they'd need to prove she wasn't wearing a seatbelt to enforce this.

As another poster has pointed out, something similar has happened before, so it is worth investigating.

FWIW, we were out the other day with a relative, who usually drives, but this time they were the passenger. They spent a while getting into the car with bags, etc. and were chatting away whilst doing so, closing door, adjusting window to be cool. Then they asked why we hadn't pulled away. It was because they'd not yet put their seat belt on.
Something they do automatically when in the car alone, they'd completely overlooked because they'd distracted themselves.

Not saying this is the case with your mum, but it can happen that if you always do something, you can think you have done it, because of the power of repetition. (Our relative in this case is now in their 70s and has been driving since 17).

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