I made my therapist cry - feel a bit guilty?

[feelabitguilty]

I was talking to her/explaining an event in my childhood and I could tell she was quite emotional/tearful by what I’d said . I feel a bit bad now ... what I had told her was upsetting but I already knew those things - to me it’s like writing a story about a fictional character - and so it doesn’t tend to bother me in the same way although perhaps they should . I can see that others would be upset by it .

I remember I had similar experiences when I worked directly with clients/patients that sometimes a story or a particular person would stick with you and I did feel tearful at times - and did express that to a couple of patients ... I think it’s a very healthy thing and an important part of showing empathy when it’s well judged . So I’m not sure why I feel a bit wobbly when the shoe is on the other foot; so to speak!

I haven’t done anything awful by bringing her to tears have I? She’s a lovely kind, gentle person .

It does make me realise that actually my feelings are right and OK (in terms of feeling trauma) - I remember similar when my
GP disclosed to me years ago when I told her I was scared of something, and she said she was also a bit nervous - it made me feel a bit better, that I wasn’t being stupid or silly (I was much younger in that example) .

Just wondering if anyone else has similar experience - from either side - this is OK isn’t it?

@DavidTheDog

There are a lot of sweeping statements about "bad" therapists here. Some models of therapy are relational and expressive, others are analytical and unemotional, neither are necessarily wrong or unprofessional.

This.

I am currently doing a level 4 counselling diploma and our teacher has said it’s okay to cry, just not to cry more than the client.

I think a tearful eye rather than sobbing is occasionally okay, and also sometimes inevitable.

I’m a therapist. I feel emotions in response to what clients tell me, most of it is empathy but some will be ‘my stuff’ - both are entirely human! As long as the therapist has not lost their capacity to hold space for the client, emotion is just that. Proper sobbing would most likely be unhelpful and unsettling for the client but ‘welling up’ in response to something sad is not something I’d worry about unless the client let me know it disturbed them. Sometimes people do worry they will damage another person if they share something that causes feelings of shame and distress.

It's ok. Is she new?
I've a friend who's just started her role in therapy and in those instances it must be difficult.

It's interesting to read the different views. I think it depends what kind of therapy you do and what your relationship is like. If she is quite open with you it's probably OK - but I'd definitely mention it.

I was in therapy for a long time with a very unemotional, detached, blank-canvas type of CBT therapist - when I moved her enough for her to have a tear in her eye it felt like we made a connection. I've moved on to someone more person-centred who is more open (in an appropriate way) and reacts to what I say more emotionally - it's hard to explain but she makes sympathetic noises and acknowledges that certain things must have been hard. She hasn't cried but she empathises and I don't feel like she's minimising my trauma, and that's important for me, I've realised.

If you think about it - it’s important that there are many different types of therapists. There are some black and white ethical issues in therapy but crying isn’t one of them. It doesn’t mean the therapist is triggered, or breaking rules, or failing. It might mean that she isn’t the right kind of therapist for some people, and that’s okay. It’s okay to say that to a therapist and to go and find someone different.

This has happened to me with more than one professional. I have also cried at work with patients (I’m not a therapist). This is absolutely ok. From both sides. I disagree strongly with posters saying you need a new therapist or that she was inappropriate.

Wow so many posters so terrified of emotion! Very British 😂

People are talking about their reactions in therapy and how the OP's experience might have affected them. You have zero idea what people are trying to deal with.

I found your comment extremely insensitive and reductive.

@GuildfordGal

Wow so many posters so terrified of emotion! Very British 😂

People are talking about their reactions in therapy and how the OP's experience might have affected them. You have zero idea what people are trying to deal with.

I found your comment extremely insensitive and reductive.

Actually I disagree.

People are dismissing the therapist as unprofessional for becoming tearful about an extremely sad disclosure, ie. for an appropriate reaction. It is patently ridiculous to describe such a human reaction as unprofessional, and I agree with the poster who describes it as typical of British fear of emotion. Exactly that.

I also find it very White British-Centric. The assumption that it is somehow wrong or unprofessional to express emotion in a safe environment. Emotion is expressed freely in many cultures who call Britain home.

This thread is a real eye opener to how uptight people project their fears GuildfordGal

Thanks all so much; this has been really interesting to read . I will mention it to her going forward. I think it has helped me me a lot - it helped me realise I was sort of minimising my experiences because I was too afraid to feel sad/angry about them. So even if I frame it in the sense of, I wanted to say how her honesty and openness has made me feel a bit more validated (though I do still worry a tiny bit - but she said it helped her hugely to know these things as it helped her understand why I think and feel certain things) . Definitely won’t put me off talking more - I actually feel a bit relieved that she was upset too; makes me feel she really listened . I think I’d have been a bit more worried if she’d not really reacted . She is the same with positive things; I’m aware it’s all skills that they’re taught and it’s being used to help me but if I tell her something good she sounds like she’s really pleased, which makes me feel happier iyswim .

On the other side of it I do remember years ago as a very new (and immature) auxiliary nurse I had two or three patients in very, very sad circumstances and I remember crying with them, because the things they were experiencing were just horrendously awful - I remember asking a relative who’s a very senior doctor if she thought that was acceptable and seem to remember her saying she thought it was a wonderful thing to be able to connect so well . I suppose it’s a bit of a different relationship with therapist and client as opposed to nurse/doctor and patient .

My God, theres some utter nonsense on here.
The therapist is both a therapist and a human being.The OP says she finds the therapy and the therapeutic relationship helpful.
The only slight query is that nobody 'made her' cry.It was her response.

Such a fascinating thread, all the responses are quite thought provoking. Had a similar experience many years ago in family therapy but for a while it was just me and a therapist with several other practitioners (5 I think) observing through the mirrored window - then you all switch places and observe the others as they discuss your session. (Back in the day when CAMHS was an actual usable service obviously.) I was talking about how I used to run away from my troubled home as a child and sleep in the forest, pretending I was raised by wolves (I still regress to this a bit) ultimately becoming a rough sleeper there as a 14/15 yo with psychosis for some time. In the post session discussion I watched one of the practitioners break down and lose it because she was so moved by it and it was bizarre because I hadn’t thought of it as an especially upsetting part of my life at all. I still don’t but her reaction was damaging, no doubt about it. She had to leave the discussion. It seriously put me off talking about any of this with anyone for all time.

It’s completely inappropriate in a professional helping sort of relationship- it’s one thing for friends or family to cry with you about difficult experiences but so unhelpful in that formal setting. Plus nobody gathered any sort of adverse reaction type data from it, unlike medication where you can log unwanted side effects there was this view that talking therapies could help without doing any harm which is nonsense obviously because that would make it completely inert!

We'll have to agree to disagree Pringle

I haven't - and wouldn't - call the therapist unprofessional. I am however, listening to the posters who say that it would impact on how they engaged with future therapy sessions.

I also find it very White British-Centric. The assumption that it is somehow wrong or unprofessional to express emotion in a safe environment. Emotion is expressed freely in many cultures who call Britain home

I'm sure there are posters on this thread who know that first hand: of course, we don't know the cultural background of who is posting here. Posters have specifically said that for the therapist to cry at their disclosures would directly remove their safe space.

I would be reluctant to put that down to being 'White British-Centric,' which is why I found that argument reductive.

This thread is a real eye opener to how uptight people project their fears

People are sharing that they would feel uncomfortable in this situation. It doesn't - in my view - make them 'uptight.' My point was that there are myriad reasons why people would feel unhappy with this, and it's not because they are white British, or 'uptight.'

Forming a view centered on perceived stereotypical traits of what I imagine someone's cultural background to be is something I try to avoid!

@Ylfa

Such a fascinating thread, all the responses are quite thought provoking. Had a similar experience many years ago in family therapy but for a while it was just me and a therapist with several other practitioners (5 I think) observing through the mirrored window - then you all switch places and observe the others as they discuss your session. (Back in the day when CAMHS was an actual usable service obviously.) I was talking about how I used to run away from my troubled home as a child and sleep in the forest, pretending I was raised by wolves (I still regress to this a bit) ultimately becoming a rough sleeper there as a 14/15 yo with psychosis for some time. In the post session discussion I watched one of the practitioners break down and lose it because she was so moved by it and it was bizarre because I hadn’t thought of it as an especially upsetting part of my life at all. I still don’t but her reaction was damaging, no doubt about it. She had to leave the discussion. It seriously put me off talking about any of this with anyone for all time.

Oh my goodness, that sounds very unnerving in and of itself - having them observe as you describe . I’m not surprised you felt uncomfortable with her distress . I can see what you mean, that client could become less likely to discuss their experiences if they felt it was upsetting the therapist . I suppose it has to be judged case by case . It’s definitely interesting, it’s given me a lot to think about - I find the thought of openly crying very difficult as I’m scared if I start I won’t stop .

I don’t think that’s necessarily because I’m British though - I’m more than open about most feelings eg if I love someone I’ll tell them, I cuddle up to people I genuinely love and care about, but I find crying - and showing anger - very difficult indeed. It just comes out in panic attacks instead .

In the post session discussion I watched one of the practitioners break down and lose it because she was so moved by it and it was bizarre because I hadn’t thought of it as an especially upsetting part of my life at all. I still don’t but her reaction was damaging, no doubt about it. She had to leave the discussion.

That’s very different to what the OP describes though, and would suggest the practitioner may have issues around stability, particularly if she knew you’d be observing as opposed to in a peer supervision session.

nobody gathered any sort of adverse reaction type data from it

What on earth are you talking about?
What happens if the therapist smiles, laughs, eyes fill with tears? It has to be logged for data?

One thing I haven't seen many mention on this thread is that it's the OP's reaction to what happened that's most important - and will make the useful work in the therapy. The therapist will hopefully reflect on her own reaction privately or in supervision.

When I did my training, one of the things we talked about was what we would do if something unusual happens during a session (i.e. a fire alarm goes off in the building, therapist suddenly feels unwell etc.) - and generally the view was that "stuff" will always happen, it's what we make of it and how we deal with it in the therapeutic work that matters. Sometimes therapists say the wrong thing or react in the wrong way but every client will interpret it in their own way and that's the more interesting aspect as it will reflect how the client is in other relationships (as long as the therapist is otherwise competent and ethical, of course). One client might see a tearful therapist and feel more heard and connected, another like the OP will feel worried about having caused upset - if that can be discussed in the therapy then it will make for interesting work.

@sadperson16

nobody gathered any sort of adverse reaction type data from it

What on earth are you talking about?
What happens if the therapist smiles, laughs, eyes fill with tears? It has to be logged for data?

No I mean unlike with medication side effects that we can all log with the yellow card in UK, talking therapies as a method of treatment didn’t routinely gather data about any unwanted or adverse events caused by it. It’s probably still not exactly routine because it’s difficult to identify and describe such things and there isn’t much appetite for it. But hopefully this will improve and these therapies will become safer over time, like other medical interventions.

I dont know anything about a yellow card and logging human emotions.
I do know that I have had some fantastic BACP registered therapists.They have been entirely professional and yes,shed a tear at times.

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

The whole point of therapy is that it will make the client feel things, and many of those things will be unpleasant at the time. That doesn't mean anything has gone wrong or that it's harmful. It's all part of the process.

The therapist will also feel things - it's not possible to do effective therapy without that. The therapeutic relationship is a real human relationship, with appropriate boundaries and an ethical framework in place to keep both parties safe. Unless the therapist is following a strict CBT style approach with worksheets and tasks set out by their service, then it will be a highly individualised treatment and it's not possible to monitor "side effects" in the same way you can when the treatment is a tablet or injection delivered in a controlled way through a specific dose. Sometimes the most effective aspects of therapy are the most painful or irritating ones. I feel pretty annoyed with my therapist this week but I know it's not because he's done anything wrong - quite the opposite, it's because he's made me look at something I'd rather avoid but actually really need to look at.

Well said@nordica. Spot on.

I agree with what you say, Nordica, and would add that where actual harm occurs, it should be reported to the relevant membership body. There are some dreadful therapists out there but the OPs therapist doesn’t sound like one of them.

Yes sorry to derail the thread! It’s a slightly different discussion from the expression of uncomfortable emotions in a single session.

@nordica

One thing I haven't seen many mention on this thread is that it's the OP's reaction to what happened that's most important - and will make the useful work in the therapy. The therapist will hopefully reflect on her own reaction privately or in supervision.

When I did my training, one of the things we talked about was what we would do if something unusual happens during a session (i.e. a fire alarm goes off in the building, therapist suddenly feels unwell etc.) - and generally the view was that "stuff" will always happen, it's what we make of it and how we deal with it in the therapeutic work that matters. Sometimes therapists say the wrong thing or react in the wrong way but every client will interpret it in their own way and that's the more interesting aspect as it will reflect how the client is in other relationships (as long as the therapist is otherwise competent and ethical, of course). One client might see a tearful therapist and feel more heard and connected, another like the OP will feel worried about having caused upset - if that can be discussed in the therapy then it will make for interesting work.

Thank you , this has been really interesting to read . TBH I reckon if I told her she’d not be at all surprised as it fits with my reactions to other things . She’s certainly helping me, it’s very hard work and I’m shattered the day after but it’s enormously helpful . My only sort of fear is if I have this sort of nervous breakdown again, it’s taken me two/three years to just begin to recover from this one and I don’t see that I could do all this all over again but I suppose that’s a different thread!