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Original poster

Is this a Crime?

21 replies

TheSugarRefiner · 27/05/2021 18:31

My friend who has only been living in the UK for 2 months recently took a private cleaning job on Gum Tree in London. She is 26, English is not her first language and she is fairly naive (I've been helping her with dating etiquette in the UK as we are both from Japan).

Anyway the job was working for a middle aged English man and was cash in hand. She provided her CV and he asked how long she had been in the UK and her background etc.

She arrived at his house to do the cleaning, he buzzes her in and when she gets upstairs, he is completely naked. He asks her to give him a massage with some oil, she probably should have left at this point but she felt unsure and uncomfortable so she proceeded to massage him. She said nothing sexual happened but she felt very uncomfortable. She said she won't go back again but I wonder if a crime has been committed here because of indecent exposure? I feel so angry that this happened and I warned her against using gumtree and Facebook for finding future work.

OP posts:

moirajohnnyrose · 27/05/2021 18:38

Yes it's indecent exposure. As he has exposed his genitals. Although I think he can argue it to say he didn't mean to cause distress/alarm. So not sure if there would be charges bought against him.

It's very disgusting and I wouldn't hesitate to atleast file a report.

Tlollj · 27/05/2021 18:40

I’ve never used gum tree so don’t know how it works. Could she report him on there. It would at least save it happening to some one else.

BMW6 · 27/05/2021 18:44

I am probably wrong, but I cannot see how any crime has been committed.

He was naked but in his own home so not indecent exposure?

She wasn't taken into his home nor held against her will

When she saw him naked she could have simply turned around and walked out of his home

Total creep of course, but I am bemused why on earth your friend went on to massage a naked man when she was expecting to do some cleaning??????

moirajohnnyrose · 27/05/2021 18:47

As far as I am aware it doesn't necessarily have to be in public.

Indecent exposure is defined as exposing the genitals with the intention of causing alarm or distress.

Returnoftheowl · 27/05/2021 18:58

Section 66 of the sexism offences act 2003 states it requires a person to intentionally expose their genitals and intend that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress.

Unfortunately, as it doesn't seem that he did what he did with the intent or alarming her or distressing her (and this act is all about the suspects intent, not the victims perception) it would not meet the definition. Also from your OP it isn't clear whether it was his back or front he was laying on, ie was he exposing his genitals or his bottom to her?

I would suggest gumtree isn't a reputable source of jobs tho, might be better if she signed on with an agency or similar instead.

Skysblue · 27/05/2021 19:12

It’s unlawful sexual harassment which is against the Equality Act but isn’t technically a crime. I’m not sure if was also indecent exposure, that’s a crime but google says has to be public 🤷‍♀️ Haven’t read the statute tho.

I’d suggest she report to police anyway, they won’t prosecute but they might try to scare him into being better behaved, as if his behaviour isn’t checked it will escalate to more serious/violent situations and the police will be aware of that.

Original poster

TheSugarRefiner · 27/05/2021 19:19

Also from your OP it isn't clear whether it was his back or front he was laying on, ie was he exposing his genitals or his bottom to her?

He was standing up completely naked then went to lie face down on a bed. She massaged his back only. She was quite confused with the situation to be honest.

OP posts:

BMW6 · 27/05/2021 19:39

But she went for a cleaning job !!!!!!

I don't see where she would be confused!

Naked Man " Hello, would you give me a massage?"

Your Friend "No, I am here to do cleaning"

MondayYogurt · 27/05/2021 19:41

No idea on the law but I strongly think she should report on the basis that this type of behaviour escalates.

PanamaPattie · 27/05/2021 20:15

Did she wear a PVC nurses outfit?

RunningFromInsanity · 27/05/2021 20:23

If she was at work is this not technically sexual harassment in the workplace?

Original poster

TheSugarRefiner · 28/05/2021 00:24

It's a completely new country, new language, new environment. This man knew that and took advantage of it

OP posts:

Original poster

TheSugarRefiner · 01/06/2021 16:30

UPDATE: we reported it to the met police online. She has an interview about it tomorrow.

OP posts:

Muddydoor · 01/06/2021 16:45

Well done for reporting it. The chap on its a fair cop said this kind of thing needs to be taken seriously as the men tend to escalate.

girlsallowed21 · 01/06/2021 18:24

Oh dear, poor girl!
She's probably only massaged him to avoid being confrontational as he seems like a complete psycho and who knows what he could've done to her had she said no???

That's horrible. Glad you've reported him. Hope they follow it up properly so it doesn't happen again.

Unfortunately it's quite commonly known that most 'cleaning jobs' on Gumtree are pervs just trying to get girls to give them private massages or even more! Be safe .

BelleBlueBell · 01/06/2021 18:33

How weird, why would he assume that everyone knows "cleaner" on gumtree is code for "massuse"? What a vunerable position to put himself in. How does he know the cleaner isn't going to give him a good old kick in the googlies and leave immediately?

He knows her English isn't good but she might be a black belt in karate, very strange.

AngusThermopyle · 01/06/2021 18:37

This is all a bit weird. Does your friend have a work permit op? That might also cause her a bit of trouble if not.

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 01/06/2021 18:43

Does your friend have the right to work here? And is she registered as self employed? Got insurance and everything set up for cleaning?

It all sounds very odd. She's obviously a grown up, but hasnt done anything the right way. That all needs sorted out.

This man is a creep and a predator deliberately taking advantage of women in vulnerable positions. But... why did she do it?!?! I have never in my live said anything like why was she there, what was she wearing, why didnt she fight harder or whatever other excuses rape apologists usually use; this is the first time I've questioned the woman who has been put into the sort of situation as a man. But seriously, what was she thinking? Why didnt she just leave? How naive is she that she couldnt walk out when a naked man asked for a massage. I just dont understand.

She's not sorted out any of the legal stuff to work, and she's massaged a naked man. This woman shouldn't be working. She needs more assistance than you have provided.

Muddydoor · 01/06/2021 19:37

Ooh low blow @Librariesmakeshhhhappen. Of course its her fault for being so shocked at the proposition that she did it.

BelleBlueBell · 01/06/2021 19:53

@Muddydoor

Ooh low blow *@Librariesmakeshhhhappen*. Of course its her fault for being so shocked at the proposition that she did it.

That's a little bit of a stretch, I don't think most people would be stunned into a naked massage. Wouldn't making a swift exit be the most likely course of action?

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 01/06/2021 20:36

@Muddydoor

Oh come on. You're hired to be a cleaner, you walk in and there he is naked and waving massage pills around... and you walk over and massage him? No. You turn around and leave.

In this situation, women have to take responsibility for themselves and just turn around and walk out. What the hell was she thinking?
If he had opened the door, pusher her in and locked it then that's different. Even if you're scared they're going to try and stop you leaving, just say yes and wait until they're lieing face down and then run. You'll be out before they can get up.
It's absolutely insane that she massages him. Totally nuts.

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