Can someone explain how this is fair?

[Changednameforthispost11]

Nc for this as outing from previous posts.

I work for the nhs, in a clinical role which includes membership of a professional body.

Our profession is on the nhs pay-scale, which means that qualified staff at the same banding would all be paid the same rate of pay which increases with number of years qualified. There is no negotiation of salary.

We received a message this week from our professional body stating that they were trialling a scheme to ring-fence a pot of money to be made available to qualified staff who are bame, to allow them to access courses and other post degree training. (Most of the time we have to fund any external courses and further training outside of our job role ourselves).

Being totally honest, when I read this, my first reaction was that this feels unfair. I could understand if funds were made available for anyone who had a particular situation or hardship, but to ring fence them specifically based on race makes me feel uncomfortable. Especially due to the fact that all qualified staff are paid at the same rate.

Would anyone else feel the same? Or am I being unreasonable? If you disagree with me, could you explain why you think this is a positive thing?

Tia

Yanbu

It would be a positive thing if it wasn’t just aimed at bame, but what about other disadvantaged?

YANBU. That's inequality. World has gone bananas.

It is unfair. However I would guess they’re able to justify it as BAME are underrepresented or disadvantaged in a certain area and they are trying to correct it. You can challenge it in court if you wanted? They’d likely win if they were positively trying to correct an imbalance though.

So a black professional man can access this, but a white woman can't?

No, it's not fair.

I'm a nurse, and I would fully support this. A tiny bit of money for training is a drop in the ocean compared to the privilege I get by being white. Subconscious racism will mean that a white nurses will find it easier to be accepted on to training courses, this is just a way of giving a tiny bit of compensation.

It's quite standard at the moment for these sorts of initiatives, which are being put forward to redress the balance and improve both opportunities and representation of BAME.

Drop in the bucket given the continuous, ongoing racism and prejudice that Black, Asian and other brown staff will have encountered to get to where they are. Plus I would guess that there has been a specific barrier with regards to funding further training identified for these individuals. Diversifying the more senior clinical ranks will benefit everyone.

Nothing is being taken away from you.

YABVU

It is needed.

BAME staff are much less likely to be represented at higher levels and management positions. They also have probably overcome much greater odds than you in qualifying, or there may be difficulty in recruitment. It therefore makes sense to redress the balance by providing advantageous incentives as well as enabling BAME staff to climb the ladder.

YABU.

And the NHS is rife with racism and unfair access to paid training is one of those areas.

The tories aren't the only cronies in town.

I think the professional body should be congratulated for addressing a problem that NHS trusts create.

Yes those in each band get paid the same. However, Look at the higher banded personnel in your organisation they will be mostly white.

Career progression opportunities need opened up to others. If this is a way to do that then why not.

I say this as a white female senior manager in the NHS.

Do you know the stats on how many ethnic minorities are represented in your profession? Or how many people are from a minority as a %?

If we change this to the sex example. There are a lot less women in CEO positions in FTSE 100 companies -in fact, you're statistically more likely to be called David than you are to be female as a CEO in the FTSE 250 companies. Why do you think that is? Is it because men are just better than women in that role?

Or is it because women are less likely to apply, receive less on the job training, or ask for pay rises and/or promotions? Because men are more likely to hire men as their successors?

The same can be said for representation issues with ethnic minorities. Ringfencing a small amount of funding to try and undo a tiny bit of this disadvantage can only be a very good thing.

I suppose it depends who's funded it. The funding could have come with stipulations around who it goes to and the nhs shouldn't decline it if it benefits some. Although I do generally agree with your post, it is a bit unfair

I'm white, I'd see it as perfectly fine as long as any bame staff could access it. What I've noticed since we've been speaking about these things, is that where there is inequality related to bame, or nhs staff, when any small change is made it doesn't seem to benefit those who really need it. I would consider it really essential that name folk at the very bottom of the nhs were given the boost up, first and foremost.

*bame not name

it is a bit unfair

Being systematically excluded, disadvantaged, and treated negatively your whole life because of the amount of melanin in your skin is totally fair, though. Any attempt to acknowledge and reduce this disadvantage in a minor way may hurt white people's feelings and should thus be avoided.

Yabu, you have a privilege which will assist you in progressing career wise, your BAME colleagues do not have this. As a pp said, nothing is being taken away from you. This is about addressing imbalance in career progression and representation at senior levels.

bunglebee
Nothing is being taken away from you

I think you will find a pay rise is.

Interested to know how under represented are BAME in your organisation at a higher level.
Are they looking to fill 50% of the posts with BAME candidates

@Stompythedinosaur

I'm a nurse, and I would fully support this. A tiny bit of money for training is a drop in the ocean compared to the privilege I get by being white. Subconscious racism will mean that a white nurses will find it easier to be accepted on to training courses, this is just a way of giving a tiny bit of compensation.

Very eloquently and accurately explained. Thank you.

Our local NHS trust had a drive whereby they were demanding that their employee base should match the local population proportionally wrt race. Our county is something like 98% white, but a very high proportion of the surgeons, doctors, nurses and other medical staff are non-white. Granted, this isn't the case for management and admin staff.

Ergo, they were effectively demanding that we severely reduce the number of qualified Asian staff members of medical staff - one diplomatic step away from a BNP mob with placards screaming hateful racist abuse. Of course, not intentionally in any way, but that was the basic conclusion one could have drawn.

I do sometimes think that decisions are made based on what they think sounds good (not just NHS) without actually looking at facts and thinking through what they will actually achieve.

Racism is unfair - this is a small way to redress that unfairness.

It is likely to be a provision to address access inequalities.

I read the title and had a feeling this would be someone complaining about something to do with race.

I read that you nc-ed and thought even stronger that it is. Then I read 'BAME'. Ah, there it is.

Anyway, OP I'm not sure how to feel about this because I'll have to understand the scheme better (there's usually more to it than is said on these threads) but I doubt they'd be giving it to a BAME person who's got every other advantage over non-BAME people besides that of just race and ethnicity.

So I'd think it's still going to a disadvantaged person who happens to be BAME.

My view when reading about this is anything that makes the NHS stronger and broadens diversity in decision-making is positive for the whole UK.

If you look at the birth outcomes info that has been in the news recently - the same story over and over again of BAME patients being ignored. Getting a broader range of people into more senior positions is one part of changing that sort of problem.