Can someone explain how this is fair?

[Changednameforthispost11]

Nc for this as outing from previous posts.

I work for the nhs, in a clinical role which includes membership of a professional body.

Our profession is on the nhs pay-scale, which means that qualified staff at the same banding would all be paid the same rate of pay which increases with number of years qualified. There is no negotiation of salary.

We received a message this week from our professional body stating that they were trialling a scheme to ring-fence a pot of money to be made available to qualified staff who are bame, to allow them to access courses and other post degree training. (Most of the time we have to fund any external courses and further training outside of our job role ourselves).

Being totally honest, when I read this, my first reaction was that this feels unfair. I could understand if funds were made available for anyone who had a particular situation or hardship, but to ring fence them specifically based on race makes me feel uncomfortable. Especially due to the fact that all qualified staff are paid at the same rate.

Would anyone else feel the same? Or am I being unreasonable? If you disagree with me, could you explain why you think this is a positive thing?

Tia

I can’t imagine a situation (within an organisation of qualified professional people) where something would be offered for men only, or women only. It would feel inherently unfair and would potentially alienate 50% of the workers.

You’ve never heard of Women in Surgical Training (WIST), or seen the Women in Healthcare Leadership Project Pledge, or attended events like this then?

I would want to know if there are 2 people. One is a young black guy from a well off family and one is a white woman who has no money and 3 dc.

The thing is that a BAME person who's well off won't typically go for these schemes, so in essence, it's really for a BAME person in the same/similar position as the white person. In other words, it still goes to an actual economically disadvantaged person who just happens to be BAME.

Arrgh! Didn't quote the whole part of what I responded to. Here's the full quote.

I would want to know if there are 2 people. One is a young black guy from a well off family and one is a white woman who has no money and 3 dc. Are we saying that the free courses are handed to the black guy just because of the colour of his skin?
What other checks are put in place to ensure that the help goes to those who need it and not just for those who want it.

I can’t imagine a situation (within an organisation of qualified professional people) where something would be offered for men only, or women only. It would feel inherently unfair and would potentially alienate 50% of the workers.

...Programmes for female talent are extremely common in the business world. Because (duh) it's recognised that they are navigating different, and greater, challenges than the men.

YABU, these are the sort of actions that we need to take to improve bame representation at higher levels. In the same way that we need to take positive discriminatory action to improve female representation at higher levels in just about all organisations. Only by changing the ‘pale, male, stale’ bias will we see more diverse and therefore successful senior teams.

I think it ought to be available to anyone who has had disadvantages or obstacles. Not based on colour or creed.

It sounds like a box ticking exercise. I know women who have struggled to study and being up kids, but had family help, worked their arses off and continue to do so because they have a family to support (kids and elder relations). How would they be less ‘deserving’ than say a privately educated man who lives with his mum and dad?

It’s not an insult, it’s encouraging you to actually do some research on the privilege that your skin colour gives you.

Because you seem totally clueless.

It’s not about debating or opinions, it’s about facts.

On paper my husband would get this and I would not.

There are many different schemes that target specific demographics. I benefitted from one when I went to uni as a single parent at 25, with a high grant, free childcare and needed lower qualifications to be accepted. I’m white.
At times I have been responsible for delivering initiatives in school for white working class boys, children whose parents are first immigrants from the Indian sub continent, children of single mums u see 18 etc etc. If there is a need to level up, it should be accepted with good grace.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I think it ought to be available to anyone who has had disadvantages or obstacles. Not based on colour or creed.

It sounds like a box ticking exercise. I know women who have struggled to study and being up kids, but had family help, worked their arses off and continue to do so because they have a family to support (kids and elder relations). How would they be less ‘deserving’ than say a privately educated man who lives with his mum and dad?

A privately educated man who lived with his parents already has advantage so most likely wouldn’t need such a scheme as he already had the qualifications to get a promotion

They could apply for it though couldn’t they? Went to a decent/private school, didn’t do so well, etc. On paper these things aren’t level.

@Bythemillpond

It's called positive action, it's perfectly legal and if you can't see why it's needed you should examine your own white privilege

So because someone is white they can’t ever say something is unfair because supposedly we have never suffered racism or discrimination and had the world handed to us on a plate..

A complete misunderstanding of the meaning of white privilege. Why is any kind of positive action towards the BAME community shot down by people who have never had to experience racism in their workplace or in their life in general. No doubt the next post will be ‘white lives matter’.

Eightiesfan

Bythemillpond
It's called positive action, it's perfectly legal and if you can't see why it's needed you should examine your own white privilege

So because someone is white they can’t ever say something is unfair because supposedly we have never suffered racism or discrimination and had the world handed to us on a plate
A complete misunderstanding of the meaning of white privilege. Why is any kind of positive action towards the BAME community shot down by people who have never had to experience racism in their workplace or in their life in general. No doubt the next post will be ‘white lives matter

Do you honestly believe no white person has ever experienced racism.

Yes I have experienced racism as a white person and so did my family.