Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

Boris still has his "nothing to see here - look over there as we got Brexit done/vaccines/economy is growing etc" card.

But he may have played his hand too early - only time will tell.

Brexit is done - you can't be hanging onto it forever.

Eventually everyone will be vaccinated and it will just be run alongside flu vaccine yearly.

Economy is growing because we hit a deficit and shrunk during COVID. It's how much he makes it grow above what we already had when we get back to normal.

Plus agree labour is too woke. Boris is actually quite centric on some things (gay marriage for example) but does have some boundaries. And is deflecting from his awful use of language by targeting some minority groups effectively.

Labour have gone with the challenge but support government through pandemic. They've been spot on with some things but Boris has undermined this by again just targeting one group of people to diminish what labour are saying (the whole unions and schools crap. He pulled on heart strings of parents and those WFH struggling to juggle that and childcare).

It eventually his cronyism will not be able to be deflected. And if labour can come in with a viable policy and stance at that time there is hope for them.

People like GiveMeTulips are a huge part of the issue. If you demonise people who don't vote the 'right' way, don't be surprised when they continue to do so. Make an effort to understand their concerns and priorities rather than smearing them.

This a thousand times over.

@CormoranStrike

And -please help me understand the “trying to erase what a woman is” argument. I know it is about trans rights, but if a biological women is transitioning to a man, and wants the legal right to be a man, is that not “they don’t know what a man is” too?

Sorry, small point, but I find this issue and all the arguments very confusing.

I think this is a case of yes, but...

Ultimately the impact of men in women's spaces is far greater than impact of women in men's spaces.
Womens refuges, women's prisons, women's changing rooms, women's sport, women's health care.

Men don't tend to feel threatened by the presence of a woman.
Women aren't bigger faster stronger.

I’m really surprised by this result. When you look at the constant criticism of the Conservatives and Johnson, who would have thought they would get this result? Hartlepool has been a safe Labour seat since the constituency was created 57 years ago.

Because the Labour our Grandfathers voted for no longer exists

The country my grandmother voted in no longer exists. Times change.

Is Keir Starmer that bad?

It took Neil Kinnock nine years to drag Labour back to an electable state the last time the it was rendered unelectable by its extreme wing. Members of the shadow cabinet rubbishing their candidate on the media didn't help either.

The Tories on the other hand have scooped up the Brexit votes without which they would have won the seat last time. Tories+brexit last time had an overall majority vote. And the vaccine programme has apparently obliterated memories that this is the same government which spaffed 37billion on the relatively useless track and trace programme and oversaw the worst death rate in Europe.

@Lightswitchesoffatnight

I’m really surprised by this result. When you look at the constant criticism of the Conservatives and Johnson, who would have thought they would get this result? Hartlepool has been a safe Labour seat since the constituency was created 57 years ago.

I mean this nicely: perhaps that's because you live in a bit of a bubble? I wasn't surprised by this at all.

The Labour Party have spent too much time attacking each other for the past 5 years.
I have never voted Conservative but I wouldn’t vote Labour atm.

@Mumteedum

Because people have sucked up Brexit lies and they like the bumbling gobshite schtick. It's our trump. Labour are seemingly about middle class issues..don't like the word woke but you know what I mean.

The god awful right wing parties of the likes of farage and Griffin are dead but those voters have also turned to Tories.

You're part of the problem.

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

I used to vote labour. I absolutely cannot now. After seeing some frankly ridiculous interviews on a TV with the ridiculous woke stuff they spout, I think that as a woman, they are going to throw me under the bus if they get into power. There have been stories on here of constituents raising this issue on doorsteps and instead of listening, the labour politicians go on a rant and spout their woke policies.

They need to wake up, stop listening to a very vocal minority and stop branding voters wrong or thick for not agreeing with them.

@TrickyD

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

You'd better tell them that, loudly. That always persuades people.

It took Neil Kinnock nine years to drag Labour back to an electable state the last time the it was rendered unelectable by its extreme wing. Members of the shadow cabinet rubbishing their candidate on the media didn't help either.

My mum is a Tory voter, and she likes Keir (she'd have liked him to be a Tory so she can vote for him!). She's likened him and his internal battles to Kinnock's.

How much policy can Keir change outside of the party conference? I think he's probably toothless because of how the party works.

Because Boris engineered a phony war with France on polling day? Hartlepool is where they hung a monkey because they thought it was a Frenchman. I remember a vox pop there around the referendum and the elderly gent asked why he was voting for Brexit said 'I don't like the French.'

And the vaccine programme has apparently obliterated memories that this is the same government which spaffed 37billion on the relatively useless track and trace programme and oversaw the worst death rate in Europe.

I believe the 37 billion also includes the cost of testing for Covid. Testing has become very easy and free for everyone so of course that is expensive.

@TrickyD

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

Wow...

You are a manifestation of the problem with Labour.

@HeadNorth

Because Boris engineered a phony war with France on polling day? Hartlepool is where they hung a monkey because they thought it was a Frenchman. I remember a vox pop there around the referendum and the elderly gent asked why he was voting for Brexit said 'I don't like the French.'

Are you for real?

Four main reasons:

1. Culturally Labour aren't hitting the mark. They are more concerned about identity politics than solving the economically led problems of the working class. There is a feeling that the priorities of the party don't match everyday priorities.
2. I think there is a growing sense of frustration and annoyance eith Labour at a local level. They've been in control of some councils and constituencies for decades and life has steadily got worse not better. There is a feeling that Labour takes votes for granted and more worryingly that the party is corrupt on a local level. Local representatives are only doing it for self interest and those of their mates.
3. Tapping back into point 2, this by-election in Hartlepool has been shambolic for Labour. Its been marked by party infighting, factional splits leading to effectively having multiple candidates stand as members have fallen out and left the party to stand on their own terms.
4. An overall lack of direction by the party. There's no coherent reason to vote FOR Labour. No one knows what they stand for. The Tories have got a message about change, levelling up regionally, and representating ordinary working class people (rather than the middle class alone) across well).

The fact Labour are floundering and unable to understand whats going on, only reinforces this idea of them being out of touch with real voters. It has come up in many political opinion polls and focus groups that the Labour membership has very different ideas to the general public over what they want and this is essentially the issue. The Labour membership are telling everyone what to do in a morality and puritanical way rather than listening adequately. Too many encounters, either in person or online with Labour representatives smugly and bluntly telling the electorate that they are wrong, bigotted or ignorant haven't gone down well. All those people blocked for disagreeing on twitter has consequences.

@TrickyD

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

Stupid statements like this are why labour aren’t turning things round. I have many highly educated peers who used to vote for them and no longer will. Branding everyone as “thick” is just a blinkered refusal to see where the real problems with labour lie.

Because the Labour Party are no longer relevant. People have their eyes wide open now, and don’t just vote for a party because their parents and grandparents did. They look into what the party represents and vote accordingly. We do though need another party which is a strong opposition party, because otherwise the Torres will become complacent.

I mean this nicely: perhaps that's because you live in a bit of a bubble? I wasn't surprised by this at all

Oooh, you’re not patronising at all, are you @SunsetBeetch. 😂😂😂

Well, what a mess.

I'm not at all surprised that Labour lost tbh. They have totally lost their way. They're very uninspiring and nobody knows what they stand for. And they chose the wrong candidate.

But FFS, how on earth are people still voting in the Tories? It is incomprehensible to me that people could still make this choice, but I guess Boris has got it sussed...the public really don't give a monkeys about corruption on incompetence. So depressing.

@Lightswitchesoffatnight

I mean this nicely: perhaps that's because you live in a bit of a bubble? I wasn't surprised by this at all

Oooh, you’re not patronising at all, are you @SunsetBeetch. 😂😂😂

I honestly didn't mean to be!

@TrickyD

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

It's people like you that are driving voters away from Labour. There was a time when Labour had respect for the working classes rather than thinking they could insult them and still get their vote.

Because a significant portion of Labour still haven't figured out that calling people thick/stupid/bigoted/fascist/far right if they have an opinion outside of a pretty narrow set of views, is not a way to win votes. And that Twitter does not represent the electorate of the UK.

I am (I suppose) what you would consider a ‘floating voter’.

I don’t identify as any particular party, I don’t have strong feelings or feel loyal to any particular party. I have probably voted for them all at some point or another. I don’t know, I don’t keep track.

This time I was really stuck who to vote for, usually when I feel this way I just vote for an independent candidate or something. However, this time I didn’t even feel I could do that. It really felt I needed to vote for an actual party.

I don’t want anymore of the Tories but at the same time I have absolutely no idea what Labour or any of the smaller parties stand for anymore.

Kind of feels like they are all the same, and I really struggle to believe that at the moment any party would do anything different or better.

Really, politicians should be targeted voters like me, people who don’t have strong feelings either way. They should be trying to tell me what they will do better. How they will help me.

I actually have no idea what Labour or the other parties were campaigning about or promising to achieve for this election. The Tories however sent me loads of leaflets and stuff.

It’s been quite surprising for me really, usually I get them all. The last general election they all seemed to go mad with leaflets.