Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

Possibly because the Guardian's online site subscription is only £2 per month. The others are more expensive: the FT charges £22 per month for online access. Great paper, fairly left liberal politically, but priced more for the metropolitan intelligentsia than the lone self-employed plumber or electrician with a white van.

[quote MmeLaraque]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

“We” are the women you are referring to in this:

“ If you really think a trans person would go to all that trouble just so they could plan some devious attack in a toilet block, you really don't have a clue what trans people are experiencing."

I support trans people. They experience aggression and attacks already. Quite why you'd be so convinced they'd inflict that on another person is beyond me. Your prejudice is clear.[/quote]
You get that Black people who have experienced racism right? Some of them have prejudices and hate too.

You get that get that Jewish people have experienced anti-semitism right? Solme of them have prejudiced and hate too.

You understand that gay people have experienced aggression and attacks and some of them attack too.

You clearly understand transgender received aggression but they too are capable of inflicting harm on other people. Do we really have to mention what has already taken place in a prison, where their strength as a male bodied individual allowed them to commit a heinous crime against a vulnerable female who has no where to go or does it not matter cause they're in prison?

Everybody is different

The level of contempt you have for people daring to vote differently is quite chilling.

Predicting people will regret their vote is contemptuous? I can live with that. I do have the example of history behind me.

@TatianaBis

One of the big problems is that Labour don't understand, and don't represent, the values and wishes of traditional working class northerners any more. They just don't.

Well turncoats have the next 5 years to discover that the Tories don’t give a fuck about working class northerners and never have. (Which is partly why parts of the north are in the economic mess they are).

Well, using language like 'turncoats' is part of the problem. Loyalty is earned. Why should traditional Labour voters vote for a Labour party that is anything BUT traditional.

Predatory men always have, and always will find ways to gain access to vulnerable women and children.
They will even spend years studying and training for the priesthood, becoming teachers, scout leaders, sports coaches and so on. A new opportunity has arrived that barely takes any time or effort at all: announce that you identify as a woman. No questioning or doubt is allowed.
This does not mean that ALL men in the above categories are predators, however, we have no way of knowing which ones are and which ones are not.
This is why we have safeguarding policies and procedures.
The Trans Activist movement, supported enthusiastically by Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, among others, is on a mission to dismantle safeguarding in our schools, work places, prisons, sports, refuges, hospitals.
Any woman who expresses concerns about this is shouted down and called a bigot, even if they support all human rights, including the human rights of trans people and especially if they support the safeguarding of women and children.

But you do also wonder exactly what Boris has to do to lose? I know we have the vaccine now, but that's naff all to do with Boris.

Who appointed Kate Bingham to lead the vaccine task force? Who did she answer to in that role? Or did she have 'naff all' to do with it?

@Andante57

I have noticed this from hard left and especially after Brexit when it was being mooted that people with a so called certain level of education should be allowed to vote! It is chilling and I was concerned when it didn't seem to be picked up on, but I know now it is

Miljea has said on this thread that voters should’ve been tested before they were allowed to vote in the EU referendum. I asked him/her what the questions would be but she hasn’t answered.

Jesus! I missed that. It’s just awful. How can you reconcile the thought that you’re on the side who are fighting for the disadvantaged while simultaneously believing that the disadvantaged (I.e those who haven’t received excellent education) are too stupid to vote?

Labour need to hit a few pubs, buy a few beers, and listen to the conversations. Advice from Dominic Cummings. Forget the echo chamber.

THat didn't go too well for Kier Starmer a few weeks ago.
Think he was chucked out and his minder assaulted the landlord

I have noticed this from hard left

Erm I’m not hard left, I’m centre left.

Bit late now but no I don't define woke as 'aware of social injustices'. And clearly most people don't as if they did most people would vote for it. But they vote against is every time. I define woke as privileged snowflaky wankery. As do most people. Add in a bit of eternal victimhood, preachiness and a few tiny beards and you have the generally perceived definition of woke. So for labour to thrive they need to dump that nonsense and start doing big important things that people care about.

As a Guardian reporter said on TV this morning, just not being Jeremy Corbyn isn't enough. We're not hearing enough (anything?) about Starmer's ethos or policies. What does he care about?

@BuggerBognor

Here we go...🙄

“But why won’t people do what I want??!!”

I wonder if thats the same Carrie/nutnuts that posts on the covid board 🤔

Well, using language like 'turncoats' is part of the problem.

Knee jerk reactions to a word expressing switching from one side to another is part of the problem.

@endofagain

Predatory men always have, and always will find ways to gain access to vulnerable women and children. They will even spend years studying and training for the priesthood, becoming teachers, scout leaders, sports coaches and so on. A new opportunity has arrived that barely takes any time or effort at all: announce that you identify as a woman. No questioning or doubt is allowed. This does not mean that ALL men in the above categories are predators, however, we have no way of knowing which ones are and which ones are not. This is why we have safeguarding policies and procedures. The Trans Activist movement, supported enthusiastically by Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, among others, is on a mission to dismantle safeguarding in our schools, work places, prisons, sports, refuges, hospitals. Any woman who expresses concerns about this is shouted down and called a bigot, even if they support all human rights, including the human rights of trans people and especially if they support the safeguarding of women and children.

Say that again for those in the back!

Seriously, I'm accepting of everybody (don't believe in tolerance), but even I can see a problem. I'm still trying to understand why third spaces are being ignored.

I wonder if the outcome would have been different if the enquiry into Boris having funds from lobbyists had already been held?

was Brexit because, as some of my urban affluent left leaning neighbours would tell me, the white working class are racist. (Some really hate the English working class.) Not because people had concerns about some of the realities of large inward movements of population and the resultant overloading of local public services etc.
The government have spent all their time in power systematically cutting back funding to public services. It is not the new Polish family next door who make it harder to get a GP appointment or mean a youth centre has to close, it's the Conservative party.

I had my doubts about the French/German attempts to resurrect the Holy Roman Empire. The UK was one of the most influential members of the EU (the figure I think was that we won about 90-ish per cent of the votes we wanted?)

Again, stuff like this doesn't help the argument that Tory voters were not ill-informed.

i love keir. finally electable

@CervixSampler

Labour don't know what a woman is. Neither do LibDems. Or the Greens. It's a problem. I suspect the brexit effect is the driver though.

This occurred to me too. There's a possibility these parties are reaping at the ballot box their casual disregard for the sex-based rights and even definitions of 51% of the UK populace.

I've never been a Tory voter and think their handling of both Brexit and the pandemic has been abysmal. But I consider the current sustained assault on women's rights sufficiently serious that I'll be a single-issue voter until this situation is reversed. And no, the irony that it's the fucking conservatives alone in the political wilderness on the side of women's rights isn't on me.

Voting blue. I want to scrub myself.

@randomer

What a bloody mess.I wish we could be rid of this hateful, binary approach to politics. I think people vote Tory because of many reasons...but I fear 'not letting foreigners take our jobs' may be part of it.

Your second sentence contradicts your first, you know.

For example was Brexit because, as some of my urban affluent left leaning neighbours would tell me, the white working class are racist. (Some really hate the English working class.) Not because people had concerns about some of the realities of large inward movements of population and the resultant overloading of local public services etc. Room needs to be made for discussion about the detail and unwanted impacts of immigration, gender self ID, all sorts of things. But instead it is binary. Either you are on the side of "right" or not. And if not you are phobic, racist or a hater. And no one defines how "right" was arrived at, or allows any nuance

All of this.
The effect of EU immigration on affluent middle classes is very different from the effect on already under-pressure marginalised communities. If the middle classes would stop crying ' racist' long enough to listen then may succeed, as they love to tell others to do, in 'educating' themselves.

Labour, Lib dems, SNP & Labour don’t know what a woman is and don’t deserve a vote. I think this whole election in Scotland at least could be seen as which party is the least crap one!

You have to remember that it was Hartlepool, who, during the Napoleonic Wars, hanged a shipwrecked monkey as a French spy?
They seem to be ‘voting for Brexit’, now that the Ukip/ Brexit party has gone, they believe that Johnson has delivered...

AllTheUserNamesareAlreadyTaken

Here is Miljea’s comment:

There was a thread about Brexit soon after the referendum when a poster genuinely thought voters should take a test before they were allowed to vote."

Well, I think the 42% turnout sort of tells you that for many, the Referendum was the only time they ever voted, and the fact the most googled term on June 24th 2016 was 'what is the EU?'
This is why I think there should have been a simple test regarding 'do you have a clue?' - prior to being permitted a vote in that referendum

I’m still waiting for an answer as to what the ‘simple test’ would consist of.

@Andante57

AllTheUserNamesareAlreadyTaken

Here is Miljea’s comment:

There was a thread about Brexit soon after the referendum when a poster genuinely thought voters should take a test before they were allowed to vote."

Well, I think the 42% turnout sort of tells you that for many, the Referendum was the only time they ever voted, and the fact the most googled term on June 24th 2016 was 'what is the EU?'
This is why I think there should have been a simple test regarding 'do you have a clue?' - prior to being permitted a vote in that referendum

I’m still waiting for an answer as to what the ‘simple test’ would consist of.

Christ. A test to make sure you’re going to vote what I think you should vote. And they think they’re the good guys?