Do work place bullies always get their comeuppance?

[Hypie]

NHS

We have a notorious senior manager. She's been around for years, quickly went through the ranks because she 'gets things done'. The way she gets things done is shouting, screaming, swearing, telling people she could replace them the next day and just general awful fucking behaviour.

The service she works for has massively high staff turnover, last two managers under her have gone off sick with stress and she's had two people put claims against her which fell down because nobody would go on record as a witness.

She is now my manager and within two weeks i've already had two run ins with her. The first was hearing her directly ask someone if they 'were fucking stupid' the second was her phoning me and giving me an earful because of a complaint the department had received (unfounded but she hasnt come back and apologised).

She has apparently reduced men to tears! I've seen her screw her face up when people are talking on teams calls, she is just a foul nasty person with no management skills whatsoever. All she knows how to do is shout and scream to get people to do things.

These people always come up against someone bigger and better eventually don't they? Even for the NHS she is pushing it, I've seen some shitty managers in my time but she is something else

Watching with interest. I certainly hope so after the past few weeks. At least mine isn't quite as bad as yours - yet. So so frustrating to see people behave with such rudeness and get away with it

Not in my experience, no. Mainly because, as you have noted, no-one will go on record to complain about them so if their team is delivering the work (regardless of the treatment they have endured to achieve that) then it’s easier to leave it alone. 🙁

Sadly in my experience they get promoted and their victims get sacked or go off with stress .

My experience is the same as @ScarletZebra. I mean, not from being a shit manager myself but from observing what happens to shit managers.

Yep, promoted out of the way here too because even senior management too afraid to make a fuss. Also , people who are highly dangerous and cut corners are promoted in DHs line of work. It's scary.

No.

But I live in hope that now he has left (with an undeserved payment) that I will be there to witness it when his life goes wrong.

Nope. In my experience the bullies usually get massive pay rises, promotions and are showered in glory. Nobody wants to sack them because then they go for the jugular and start suing everyone in sight. If they do leave, they usually receive a massive pay-off in return for going quietly.

I'd use Covid to get recordings on your phone of her on Teams and phone calls - get hard evidence and get together with others - have you tried a union for advice if you're a member? If not then I'd suggest joining one
Good luck - people like this need sacking

Mine just kept getting promoted (public sector).

Yep!
We had someone who sounds exactly like the person your describing, it took 7 years but she was out the door eventually!!

Mine moved upwards and upwards until he finally bullied the wrong person and got sacked.
Someone was shocked the other day when I said that if he stepped in front of my car, I wouldn't brake. I wouldn't. He drove me almost to breaking point.

No, they usually get promoted, might get moved elsewhere. Workplace bullies are strategic, they'll kiss the right asses and shout at the people they know they can get away with shouting at.

Yes. If people make formal complaints things happen. It's doing it informally that's the issue.

There was a very similar thread about this a few weeks/months ago. I think the consensus was generally not, unfortunately, but sometimes.

I had one boss about 20 years ago who was a bully but he did get his comeuppance as he was sacked (but because of a change of ownership, not because of his behaviour).

Another one who wasn't a bully, but wasn't nice to work for, was made redundant.

Both have since got very good jobs and earned loads of money though.

The third made everyones' lives a misery and is still in the same job, 9 years after I left I don't know why some employers would rather pay people to go quietly than get rid of the problem. I suppose it is a differing perception about who is the problem. However, I think when someone has either sacked or driven away half her team, she is the problem!

Yes, I worked for a narcissistic misogynist. Most of my five page grievance with dates and times was about his behaviour.
Unfortunately I only followed through with the grievance as I had a chance meeting with someone who had worked with him previously. Her experiences with him mirrored mine but with her grievance they moved him sideways into our department.
After my grievance he left the company very quickly but it broke my mental health and six years downbthe line I'm still recovering.
At least he shouldn't be able to harm anyone else though (at least in that company).

Following this with interest, have a bully that is busy working her way up atm, she is the degrade others, inflate herself, talk nasty behind peoples backs, buddying up with them and also at times justifying her nastiness by telling the victims a polished version of what she was saying. You know, just in case someone like me tells on her. Not related example " xx is such a horrible mother, she does nothing right with her kids and doesn't even try" becomes " I know you are doing your best, they are lovely kids" to the victims face. Throws out snarky comments if you are less than perfect. Brown noses the higher ups. Gaslights people, she tries that with me, fortunately I've grown wise to her tactics, basically claims I was supposed to do certain tasks when I was assigned other tasks and tries to berate me when I haven't done those certain tasks. All in all, there is more. Sadly can't touch her due to the brown nosing higher ups. Word against word so I am lining up a new job if I can and leaving the toxicity as she is lining me up as her next victim and I can't be arsed.

Mine did many years later, she probably bullied 20 people out of their job first.

@MrsHamlet

Mine moved upwards and upwards until he finally bullied the wrong person and got sacked. Someone was shocked the other day when I said that if he stepped in front of my car, I wouldn't brake. I wouldn't. He drove me almost to breaking point.

I have lain in bed thinking of particularly nasty ways to get my own back on the 3rd person I mentioned above. Singularly nasty individual. But they are not worth the effort or headspace.

I didn’t do it informally.

It was handled awfully. And to cover their ineptitude, the managers were, shall we say, less than truthful. And the rep had irons in another fire that they were reluctant to wave about.

Thrice shafted in my opinion. I won’t forget it. Ever.

Eventually I guess karma bites them on the bum. It’s usually long after you’ve gone and don’t care anymore though.

@ScarletZebra

Sadly in my experience they get promoted and their victims get sacked or go off with stress .

This!

First time it was an older woman who was brought in as my assistant. She didn't like that I was younger than her and made my life hell. I left and she was promoted.

Second time, again older woman. She took an instant dislike to me. Would purposely show me things incorrectly whilst training me and then berate me in front of the whole office. Then I was promoted and the opportunity came up for further promotion, but she stopped this from happening.
Thankfully the new team member is lovely, but although she's now my superior I have more experience and knowledge of the work.
I've complained a few times and put in a formal complaint and still nothing is done. God knows what this woman has over the boss! She's constantly making mistakes and is very slow at her work, which then delays everything else.

He was my HT but turned up as a parent at my next school. I wasn't expecting to see him and had to be coaxed out of the toilet where I'd run to vomit and hide.

NHS cant get the staff. Saw 2 nurses screaming at a crying boy who was topless and scared of an injection telling him they would get the hospital porters to hold him down

The jury is out. Rumour has it that a really horrible work colleague (who didn’t bully me directly but bullied someone else and I got it in the neck when I raised it) had a penchant for wearing clothes that were far too tight for her, went for a job in a dress that zipped all the way up the back (terrible idea in our line of work) split all the way up the back and left exposed in front of 40 people. I also believe she is unwell from covid (and wouldn’t wish this on anyone) but better her than someone kind.

Unfortunately this is rife in the NHS & nothing ever gets done. People lie & close ranks. I’m sure you won’t, but please don’t do as a pp advises and record anything. Recording anyone without their knowledge or consent (especially in health care premises) will get you dismissed. Not to mention possibly compromising confidential patient info.