Do work place bullies always get their comeuppance?

[Hypie]

NHS

We have a notorious senior manager. She's been around for years, quickly went through the ranks because she 'gets things done'. The way she gets things done is shouting, screaming, swearing, telling people she could replace them the next day and just general awful fucking behaviour.

The service she works for has massively high staff turnover, last two managers under her have gone off sick with stress and she's had two people put claims against her which fell down because nobody would go on record as a witness.

She is now my manager and within two weeks i've already had two run ins with her. The first was hearing her directly ask someone if they 'were fucking stupid' the second was her phoning me and giving me an earful because of a complaint the department had received (unfounded but she hasnt come back and apologised).

She has apparently reduced men to tears! I've seen her screw her face up when people are talking on teams calls, she is just a foul nasty person with no management skills whatsoever. All she knows how to do is shout and scream to get people to do things.

These people always come up against someone bigger and better eventually don't they? Even for the NHS she is pushing it, I've seen some shitty managers in my time but she is something else

Only if people take action. Would you feel comfortable speaking to HR? Or your trusts freedom to speak up guardian? X

No in my experience it’s the opposite, they get quickly promoted and their victims quit or go off sick due to stress.
Nice, conscientious people don’t get anywhere - which sucks as I’m the latter

I think they rarely get comeuppance.

I suffered at the hands of my manager. Retail job. I was assistant manager. She was really quite clever and underhand and I realise now was gaslighting me. Final straw came when i found a notebook where she was noting all of my "failings" but she never actually raised any of them with me. God knows what she planned to do with it.

Finally she applied to move store and my one little vestige of power was that as assistant manager I should have arranged a leaving card and present. I didn’t bother my arse. It was a tiny victory but felt glorious!

She ended up moving to New York and marrying an apparently nice man. So no karma there.

Nope, they get promoted. My experience of this is both NHS and non-health private sector. They usually have something on someone higher up that they've cultivated as leverage against bad behaviour. So they get promoted and move sideways into adjacent departments or companies. They always win.

From what I've experienced, no, they don't get their comeuppance.

As a couple of pp's said, there's one woman who I wouldn't shed a tear over if she passed. Or as some would say, I wouldn't give them the steam off my piss.

Yes they did.
3 bullies I worked with all got their comeuppance.
One ended up being arrested.
The other completely humiliated.
The other managed into a demotion.

These people always come up against someone bigger and better eventually don't they?

Not in my experience, no. The idea of "karma" sounds appealing but I've never seen it actually happen.

Yes they did in my experience. My bullying line manager sided with another bullying manager from a different department were I also worked closely with making my life hell. I eventually left and found out a couple of years later that the two bullying managers accused each other of bullying where the other manager from the different department was dismissed and a few months later, the two bitches from my team who used to also side with my direct line manager making my life like hell who used to gossip behind my back and talk shit about me took time off from poor mental health caused my ex direct line manager.

The ex direct line manager was later dismissed after a massive investigation of bullying those two bitches and one of the bitchy employer went on maternity leave and came back to a new team where she also quit because she couldn't work under the new manager who actually did a great job and the other bitch applied for a new role in a different department. My life now is so much better in terms of a job as I literally upgraded in my position and salary, my marriage is good (touching wood) and I'm financially secure with a good salary and also my husbands business is quiet good as well. I occasionally see them pop up on my SM where mutual friends comment and I remember the times where I felt trapped in the job as I couldn't afford to leave and I was desperately searching for a new role which was difficult to go to interviews because my ex line manager would only sign off time 2 weeks ahead and you know with job interviews you can get 3-5 days notice most of the time. It was hell. I'm so glad how my life is right now.

I don't know what it is but whatever I wanted in life or in a situation, it has happened. I used to pray in my car going into work every morning, pray that they all fall out and leave me alone and pray that I find a new job. I found a new job and they all fell out losing their jobs. I guess the amount of times you say it, it can happen.

Or jot down every event and speak to HR.!

The one at my previous employer kind of did in that they lost their job, although got a far better outcome than they deserved. I think the organisation was just pleased to see the back of them by the end TBH. However, it took a large number of grievances and good people leaving, plus 2 successful tribunals (with a combined payout of 6 figures, so I heard) before HR were willing to even begin to tackle it. It then took another couple of years to get them out. I had already left as a result of the bully, but they had a number of months on gardening leave (full pay oc) and were eventually pushed out with a pay-off. Online snooping tells me they were out of work for some months (it wasn't the kind of position that comes up often), but eventually got a similar role in another organisation.
I often wonder how their new team are faring. My ex employer had apparently been quietly warned about the bully by some in their previous organisation, but employed them anyway. It cost my ex employer dearly both in financial payouts and loss of very knowledgeable employees. Everyone who was able jumped ship, and they were left with the deadwood. Whilst in post, the bully also made some massive fuck ups as they were thoroughly incompetent as well as a bully (we were threatened with losing our jobs if we exposed it, although some of us still took the risk). These also cost the employer a very very large sum of money.
I haven't met many people in my life I would class as truly and wholly nasty, but this person definitely qualified. They would bully, lie, shout and scream to cover their tracks and get what they wanted. If you were found doing anything that may expose them or make them look bad, even unwittingly, then a campaign of abuse and being called on trumped up disaplinaries would start. You were not allowed to disagree or point out errors, even though there were a lot of areas that had to be done a certain way for regs, and they had often got it wrong. I'm very glad I was able to get out, as it was horrific. I just felt very let down by HR, who at the point I asked for help, refused to see what was staring them in the face.

Mine did.
Had a temporary promotion, after the time up they were demoted back down to previous grade.
NHS.
I quit that job as I refused to work under them as it gave them even more power and meant I would have to spend more time with them.
I handed in my notice to my big boss. Told them that reason was her, she is a cunt and I don’t work with cunts.
My actual words.
Boss didn’t even raise an eyebrow.
Numerous complaints prior to me, nowt done til my tirade.
She didn’t get anywhere with me, But made others feel like crap, often and for no other reason other than badness.
Cunt.

Ex NHS ..have had terrible managers..we once had to lock one in a side room as she was screaming and ranting so much the patients ( mental health ward) were getting upset .She was eventually moved upwards to a post where she had little or no human contact
This was where I first saw that HR is not there to help you , but to protect the organization .
Maybe due to working in nhs and social services but the bullying male managers were rare and quite stupid, but the bullying female managers were so vile and pernicious, and often stayed in post or were promoted for years..their nastiness , usually towards other women , stripped me of any illusions about sisterhood very quickly .
And no , never sa w one get their come uppance .

I’m private sector and there’s at least 2 bullies I’ve known ultimately get sacked. But not before they’d caused other people extreme be stress and some to leave. I’m not sure they get their comeuppance though as they’ve both moved on to other decent jobs.

@MrsHamlet

He was my HT but turned up as a parent at my next school. I wasn't expecting to see him and had to be coaxed out of the toilet where I'd run to vomit and hide.

This exact thing happened to me too.

I really really hope my bullies will get their comeuppance one day.

Not in my experience, civil service.
If the bullies are good at their jobs and can talk the talk, have made friends higher up, they get away with it.
I've seen good people be made redundant and sacked while off sick but the bullies have retained their jobs.

This from an organisation that apparently has a zero tolerance. It's just lip service.

Not in my experience. Manager has been in the job for about 25 yrs. Bullies all staff under her. Many staff have left due to her bullying over the years. If you try to speak to her about issues you have at work, she turns it around and then it is all about her!
Many complaints have gone in over the years, but nothing ever gets done about it. Other departments know what she is like, but the management will not deal with it.

I live in hope that one day she will get her comeuppance

Mine was in a civil service role. I was the 9th complainant against her. None of my many many complaints were upheld but I and the rest of the staff did get the small pleasure of seeing her being trollied out of the workplace in an ambulance as a result of me escalating a significant bullying complaint, and due to her having a panic attack. I think I was the first person to actually effectively defend myself and get ‘under her skin’. I have heard on the grapevine that the 16th complainant was successful in a positive finding of bullying being made against her. Meanwhile, she has been promoted and promoted and when she didn’t succeed ina role she sued the organisation and won.

But I think the tables might have finally turned. I understand with the history of so many complaints now against her - and wasted HR resources and legal pay outs dealing with the fall out of her bullying - that there is some will above to restructure her out.

She is my first and hopefully last experience of workplace bullying and I have been scarred for life as a result of that interaction. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if I could have my time again, I’d leave on the first sight of having a bully near my person again.

Mine did. He's currently serving 3 years for fraud.

Yes and no. I do think bullies get promoted and victims get exited, but it only goes so far. Sooner or later the bully either comes up against a bigger bastard and gets a mighty dose of their own medicine and no resources to handle it. Or the Peter Principle applies and they get promoted beyond their capabilities and fuck up so get shown the door. But the devastation they cause along the way is incalculable and much if it is unseen. It’s hard to put £ on staff turnover, customer turnover or poor productivity they cause in most settings. Plus the long term damage to individual victims is totally out of view. All because their managers won’t (or can’t) manage.

No they don't. NHS here too. Band 7 manager. Good manager in that she got things done, good at detail etc but interpersonal skills crap unless you were in the 'clique.' Cultivated friendships with some of the more forthright gobby staff, seemed to be a bit of pattern over the years to get them on her side and stave off trouble. Even went on holiday with 3 of them and no doubt shared personal details about other members of staff. Bullying culture tacitly tolerated, lots of bitching, in jokes. Funnily enough we had big changes and acquired several new managers who had very different mindsets so she to a certain extent had to change mellow. She's gone now thank god

Yes to the above, cultivated the gobby ones, cliques etc.

I'm also NHS, and I've never seen one of these managers get their comeuppance.

BUT, I have noticed that after being promoted and promoted they tend to jump out of the NHS and become management consultants/change managers/project managers etc.

So basically if you grit your teeth they will move on.

Not in my experience. Unless you have evidence that is sufficiently concrete to scare your employer that you could take them to a tribunal then HR will always see the victim as the problem. If you do have evidence, the best they will offer is a settlement agreement for you to leave.

One senior manager was sidelined during a restructure because of their bullying behaviour. During the consultation for the restructure, pretty much the whole Dept complained about this manager to the Big Boss. In the new structure, their role was sidelined and they had no line management responsibility. When this manager found out (they weren't aware of the complaints against them because they weren't formal), the tried to rally their team to save their job, but of course, nobody was willing to support them!!! I think they were pretty broken by it.

I know this because I work in HR so was aware of what was going on behind the scenes.

I'm also NHS, and I've never seen one of these managers get their comeuppance.

Actually I'm going to correct myself, I sort of have. But she was dismissed for falsifying records to meet a target (or rather for telling her staff to do so), which didn't even touch on most of the harm she did.

The odd thing was that there was no need to falsify those records. It wasn't a 100% target and the department was alresdy (and genuinely) performing at the required level.