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What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

632 replies

flashbac · 25/04/2021 10:34

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

  • Free childcare for working parents
  • making public transport normal and affordable
  • subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

OP posts:
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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/04/2021 15:11

To be successful Labour needs SNP to lose traction and for there to be a scandal or for Mr Johnson to fuck up before the election.

At this point, I've started to feel as if Johnson could kick a kitten live on TV and he'd still win on a landslide. His entire life is one long scandal. His government is shockingly incompetent and the taint of corruption would have sunk most previous administrations. He's being kept afloat because most voters are aghast at the alternatives.

Cactus1982 · 26/04/2021 15:14

There’s a very good chance Plaid will hammer them in the Welsh assembly elections. I’ve never seen as many Plaid signs around here as I’ve done in the last few weeks.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 26/04/2021 15:16

@thecatfromjapan

There's a world of difference between Labour policies - actual policies - and the sort of stuff that appears on social media.

Actual Labour policy is focused on wealth creation, funding the public sector, help for small and medium businesses ...

All the stuff people in here say they want.

Nothing about pronouns. No shift on women's rights.

And Starmer has moved - consistently -away from Corbynism.

The Corbynists know this and are both furious and mounting a campaign to get rid of Starmer.

But ... there's a huge problem. Which I think is made really clear on this thread:

How would you know all that?

Our media is dominated by coronavirus. Labour are massively out of power - with an 80 seat majority for the Conservatives, the Opposition, led by Starmer, is almost an irrelevance.

Meanwhile, the click bait 'Leftism' of Owen Jones dominates social media.

It's incredibly hard to compete against someone whose aim is to generate attention for himself and his niche area at the cost of actually helping a political Party win votes.

The narrative about what the Labour Party actually stands for at the moment is very much at variance with its policies at the moment.

To me, it's utterly contaminated by a really niche version of 'progressivism'.

What do you do about that? I don't know the answer - but I think Labour needs to find an answer. And soon.

And, yes, the treatment of Rosie Duffield on Twitter is key to that. It's beyond a disgrace.

People can disagree - but bullying of the like she has been subjected to is unacceptable.

One problem is that it's on Twitter, rather than within an organised political space - so it's hard to discipline. But ... something needs to be done about it. It's poisonous.

As for the culture stackofcats identifies ... well, my feeling is that people - especially young people - experiment with ideas. However, you expect something different from an actual political Party.

One of the madnesses of recent politics has been the absorption of ideas such as those - at the cost of materially-grounded policies - into the mainstream, Parliamentary Left. It didn't work with the electorate, did it?

But, again, there is a huge difference between the policies and economic/social strategy the Labour Party currently have and that extra-Parliamentary politics.

The problem is that it seems very few people know that.

Reading this thread has made me think that Starmer needs to make this very, very clear.

For example, Owen Jones has virtually no purchase within the current Labour leadership. He had a whatsapp hotline to the previous administration.

No more.

He's totally out in the cold.

But people still identify his social media rantings with Labour.

This clearly needs to change.

So, in short, my wish would be for Starmer to be a bit more vocal about what he's done. Particularly about creating a clear firewall between Labour as the Party that seeks to govern and the wild 'progressives' who are really out of touch in their demands and behaviour.

thecat your statement above that there has been no shift on Womens' rights is wrong - well it is right in that Labour's policy is still that all women shortlists can include males who identify as women AND that it is committed to reforming the GRA and EA to 'ensure that they protect trans people'. Given that the LP believes that TWAW, it is disingenuous to claim that there is no shift on womens' rights. And to win my vote KS/The LP need to backtrack on both these issues.

NEC Statement currently on LP website

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

randomlyLostInWales · 26/04/2021 15:16

He's being kept afloat because most voters are aghast at the alternatives.

I think this is the sad truth.

derxa · 26/04/2021 15:18

Anas Sarwar is doing very well in Scotland

Andante57 · 26/04/2021 15:43

Comrades, it seems to me lately...

Did Neil Kinnocks really address people as ‘Comrades’?
Nice Soviet touch.

BronwenFrideswide · 26/04/2021 15:43

TheWordWomanIsTaken, exactly women's rights are categorically not safe with the Labour Party.

the Labour Party has verified it is acting consistently with both the letter and spirit of the relevant legislation, the Equality Act 2010. Where did this verification come from? The EQA 2010 absolutely allows All Women Shortlists and Women's Officer Roles to exclude TW (with or without a GRC).

If the Labour Party is happy with opening up AWS and WO roles to anyone who identifies as a woman and believes the EQA2010 okays this then why do they want to reform the EQA? I would suggest that their reform of the EQA will be that lobbied for by Stonewall, i.e., the removal of sex as a protected characteristic and the removal of single sex spaces and services, hence Lisa Nandy's insistence that male rapist and paedophiles identifying as women must be housed within the female prison estate as to do otherwise would be to hurt the feelings of those men.

Thanks, but no thanks Labour.

bellropes · 26/04/2021 15:46

From what I can tell, the Labour Party don't like the working class, women, anybody who's not woke. They have completely failed to recognise working class concerns and dismissed them outright when directly presented with them. The members are too far left and prone to authoritarianism and intolerance towards normal voters.

Keir Starmer is wetter than a wet weekend in Blackpool. He has the personality and charisma of a dishcloth.

I won't vote Labour because they don't know what a woman is and they're too woke. I actually despise them now.

TeacupDrama · 26/04/2021 15:55

scandals don't make much difference as most people think when it comes to behaviour they are all as bad as each other
whether its johnson and dyson or cummings , Alex Salmon and NIcola, Derek Mackay, Margaret Ferriers Cyril Smith treatment of Rose Duffield and jewish MP's Len MCliuskey and deals etc etc how much is titttle tattle and game playing with rumours how much makes then unfit for office it depends but sleaze is not just a right wing problem

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 26/04/2021 16:04

@BronwenFrideswide

TheWordWomanIsTaken, exactly women's rights are categorically not safe with the Labour Party.

the Labour Party has verified it is acting consistently with both the letter and spirit of the relevant legislation, the Equality Act 2010. Where did this verification come from? The EQA 2010 absolutely allows All Women Shortlists and Women's Officer Roles to exclude TW (with or without a GRC).

If the Labour Party is happy with opening up AWS and WO roles to anyone who identifies as a woman and believes the EQA2010 okays this then why do they want to reform the EQA? I would suggest that their reform of the EQA will be that lobbied for by Stonewall, i.e., the removal of sex as a protected characteristic and the removal of single sex spaces and services, hence Lisa Nandy's insistence that male rapist and paedophiles identifying as women must be housed within the female prison estate as to do otherwise would be to hurt the feelings of those men.

Thanks, but no thanks Labour.

Exactly I could not vote Labour at the last election despite being a member. I spoiled my ballot paper and gave my reasons why to the disgust of my adult dtr (women fought for the right to vote etc). And I will do the same in the May elections and at any GE hence. I will not stand by and let Labour erode mine, my dtr's and my granddaughter's rights on the alter of trans ideology. I also feel that womens' rights are not safe with the tory party (not that I could ever see myself voting for it but you never know). I think the blond flim flam man will blow with the wind and wherever he feels he would get more votes.
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/04/2021 16:07

@Andante57

Comrades, it seems to me lately...

Did Neil Kinnocks really address people as ‘Comrades’?
Nice Soviet touch.

Yes, standard practice at the Labour Party conference until New Labour came along. See also: singing The Red Flag.
Andante57 · 26/04/2021 16:10

how much is titttle tattle and game playing with rumours

Yes - does anyone remember the Red Rag scandal - from Wikipedia:
“that Gordon Brown's special adviser, Damian McBride, had sent a series of emails to left wing political blogger Derek Draper discussing plans to set up the blog which would be used to post false rumours about the private lives of senior members of the Conservative Party and their spouses”.

Well we all know politics is a dirty business but Labour shouldn’t go on about offering ‘kinder, gentler politics’.

Andante57 · 26/04/2021 16:11

Gasp0de that’s interesting.
Is The Red Flag no longer sung at the party conference?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/04/2021 16:15

I'm not sure, Andante. Long time since I've paid any attention to a party conference, tbh. I don't know if they still say 'Comrades'. They sing 'Jerusalem' as well as 'The Red Flag', I think.

TruelyWonder · 26/04/2021 16:36

@Andante57

Comrades, it seems to me lately...

Did Neil Kinnocks really address people as ‘Comrades’?
Nice Soviet touch.

He sure did I can remember that from my childhood
BronwenFrideswide · 26/04/2021 16:51

I also feel that womens' rights are not safe with the tory party (not that I could ever see myself voting for it but you never know). I think the blond flim flam man will blow with the wind and wherever he feels he would get more votes.

I don't think Women's rights are wholly safe with the Tories either but I think on the balance of probabilities are more likely to be, the blond flim flam and others in the Tory Party are masters at picking up on touch paper issues, as was Blair in his heyday, and will capitalise on them. The obsession with identity politics and the mantra that anyone is a woman who says they are does not play well to the voters who both sides need to win over for a majority, blond flim flam knows this just as he knew what he needed to say and do re Brexit.

ListeningQuietly · 26/04/2021 17:04

Sex based rights for women and children.
Proper safeguarding for women in prisons, hospitals and refuges.
Proper funding of CAMHS

Abolition of all faith state schools you want god, pay for it
Abolition of Academy schools - make all schools transparently accountable.

Remove the internal market from the NHS

Renationalise the railways

Allow councils to build homes for social rent

cancel right to buy and all forms of government mortgage support

set the interest rate on Student loans at base plus 1%

TruelyWonder · 26/04/2021 17:04

Agree womens right are not safe with either party. I think the difference is we already know how the Tories will abuse them. Labour on the other hand are expected too abuse them in a whole new fuckwitt way. So I suppose it is a better the devil you know situation.

SunsetBeetch · 26/04/2021 17:12

@stackthecats

I got asked on twitter "Does politically homeless mean bigoted cunt who secretly votes Tory?" (I had politically homeless in my bio at the time) by a charming young, male Labour Councillor.

Shock Sunsetbeetch that is disgraceful. Yet somehow Labour aren't polling well at the moment? Maybe the sheer arrant misogyny on display from the WokeBros and handmaidens could be the reason why Angry

It's a puzzler isn't it?
StocksAndScares · 26/04/2021 17:19

I think a lot of people are missing the point on why Labour receive criticism over immigration.

Most working class people I know support sensible immigration. However, they do have concerns over Labour's open door stance on it.

Labour's problem is that they won't allow any debates on immigration to happen, full stop. It's like their TWAW "no debate" stance. It's fascist. They're telling voters what they have to think, rather than letting them debate and decide upon the issues themselves.

I'm no fan of the Tories, but they at least allow difficult debates to be heard.

RedToothBrush · 26/04/2021 17:26

Listen to the public at grassroots. They seem to think that their the activist membership of the party is representative. And therein lies the problem. Its predominately middle class. There isn't enough representative membership. Its got too obsessed with identity politics based on certain characteristics but has completely lost sight of economic background as part of that. Being unpolitically correct means your opinion is 'wrong' rather than exploring whats behind it and whats going on to led to people taking that view (eg why are working class boys not getting training and job opportunities whilst why are 2nd gen immigrants from certain backgrounds excelling in comparison).

They've become lazy and self serving and there is a structure within the trade unions and the charity section which isn't about serving the people they are trying to help and is more about having a career within those industries. It is actually better to fail to achieve gains, because if they do achieve they put themselves out of jobs!

Also the leadership and top advisors within the labour party are surprisingly Oxbridge.

They've got themselves in a mess where they no longer represent their traditional voters. Instead they appeal far more to middle class voters. So they are between a rock and a hard place about where to get votes from.

Andante57 · 26/04/2021 17:33

Abolition of all faith state schools you want god, pay for it
Abolition of Academy schools - make all schools transparently accountable.

Listening what about abolishing private schools as well?

ListeningQuietly · 26/04/2021 17:38

@Andante57

*Abolition of all faith state schools you want god, pay for it Abolition of Academy schools - make all schools transparently accountable.*

Listening what about abolishing private schools as well?

Why? If people want to pay twice for education (once in taxes, once in fees) you cannot stop them.

Private schools should not get charity tax breaks
BUT
if you abolish private schools you will bollocks up special needs provision for lots of families

Faith state schools have caused huge amounts of division.
They were one of Tony Bliar's dumbest ideas.

Desmorelda · 26/04/2021 17:57

Not a lot of fans of the tories on here but 12 pages of largely negative comment Confused.
If you read the research examining the debacle of the 2019 GE (and there is a lot), Corbyn was the the main reason the party lost as opposed to Brexit (by something like 5:1). Many of the policies were actually liked but the leader was universally despised.

Desmorelda · 26/04/2021 18:01

Faith schools have existed for years.
Many faith schools are exceptional including the one my son attends. So you are demanding that faith schools are abolished but private schools are not Hmm.