Big dilemma for DD - what would you do?

[Blackenedsoul]

DD has accepted an offer for her Uni of choice to study Media in September. She’s been looking forward to going, had planned to live at home and travel the 20 minutes in every day.

She had a part time job for a few months in a local office attached to a very small but very busy manufacturing company. She’s very well thought of and works in the office on a Saturday, doing admin, answering enquiries, emails, booking appointments etc.

Today they’ve offered her a full time, permanent post in the office and have offered to start training her up in the use of their accounts systems etc, give her more responsibility. The salary is 18k to start rising to around a max of 25k once fully trained.

This has come as a bolt from the blue, DD really enjoys the job and thinks she’d be happy doing it full time but at the same time was also happy to go off and have the Uni experience, make new friends and study and have fun.

She’s aware that lots of students leave Uni and end up falling into admin roles vey much like this and is now wondering whether bothering with Uni is worth it.

We’ve told her the decision is entirely hers but she’s really finding it hard to decide.

So, the great of mumsnet - what would you do?

" A degree absolutely does not give a free pass to a great job"

Because so many people have degrees now. It's even more reason to get one though.

"can actually make you less employable"

In what way? Employers these days don't generally worry about people with bachelors degrees being 'overqualified'.

"Uni isn't going anywhere. She can go any time......."

Not really, no.
It's no fun being 35 in a class full of 18 year olds or being a working parent trying to do the OU in your spare time and regretting you didn't go when you had the time and the money.

University isn't just about the degree at the end of it.

It opens up huge opportunities to volunteer on some amazing charity projects. There are internships available every summer to help build work experience. Some courses allow/encourage a year in industry. You have access to all of the universities resources and support for all of these things.

If she's not fixed on exactly what she wants to do then a degree from a good university opens up access to a tonne of graduate programmes. The graduate programmes I've seen all pay £20k+ starting, £25k starting isn't unusual and where I work it's £30k+. That's before they've received any formal training.

The area I work in is software engineering - we have graduates mostly from STEM backgrounds but it's not limited to STEM and certainly not limited to Computer Science.

Whilst I think deferring a year wouldn't be a bad option, the idea of not going to uni whilst she's the 'right' age and it's 'easy' wouldn't occur to me. What I mean by that is that the system is set up for 18/19-year-olds to go to uni straight from A levels.

Defer. And do the job for a year. Having basic office experience, including accounts and budgets, dealing with clients etc is essential for most jobs and will give her the edge against others finishing a degree with no relevant work experience. Even if she lands a first job 'in media' it will essentially be admin

I've interviewed for loads of graduate positions; the ones with proper work experience always have the edge

Exactly this. Especially this year.

She will regret not going to university and not having a degree will limit her options in the future. University opens so may doors not just for employment but it expands your horizons and helps you grow as a person. The only compromise I would make would be to defer for a year, then go to university and keep the job part-time or just find another part-time job. Please don’t let her give up uni, she will regret all her life...

TBH media is very over subscribed. i would definitely take the job. If she was studying medicine or another vocational job, I would def go to uni, but otherwise, unless she’s just going solely for the social aspect, I would take the job. I work alongside many who have gone to uni getting degrees, and who work for the same money I do, when I went straight into work after leaving school.

"There's plenty of us out there with good good degrees earning under 30 K. A degree guarantees nothing.
I'm proud of mine but it in no way affects my current career path! I'd imagine this is the case for many unless your degree is v career focused eg teaching or medicine"

Well, this is the case for me if you're talking about money and career. Never earned more than 23k in the UK.
However, university isn't just about getting a job is it? Education has its own value and the "traditional" university experience is one you can only get when you're young.

Not having a degree in Media will never limit anyone's options 🙄

"Defer. And do the job for a year. "

She might get used to earning and get stuck in the admin trap. Someone interested in media might end up not that fascinated by book-keeping long term.

Average salary 1 year after graduating with media studies degree:£15,900

www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/worklife/campus/a25799523/average-salary-one-year-after-graduating/
Even five years after graduating, an average student doing her degree won’t be on £25,000
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44395621

So if it’s about career prospects, she should stick with the job. Basic accounts training will serve her well in all sorts of ways and at 21 she’ll have matured in the workplace and have a huge edge over graduates without this experience. If it was a choice between the job and a degree with better career prospects, such as nursing or engineering, or if she had a plan to go into a professional career such as teaching I would encourage uni, but it’s a no-brainer to opt for three years of training and earning instead of three years of debt

This is difficult. If it was 20 years ago, I would say take the job. But the workforce has changed - most employers now ask for a degree, even for entry level admin roles

Agree. She will be extremely limited without a degree. I'm not saying that a degree actually makes you a better employee, only that it's a minimum requirement for many, many jobs. I used to work with an HR manager (as one example) who was brilliant - far better than her more qualified seniors - but she was forever stuck in a lower grade because she had no degree. Don't let this be your daughter.

I would also worry that accepting the job will make her very beholden to the company. As an employer myself, I am suspicious of their motives. Without a degree, they will be getting her on the cheap (not immediately, but longer-term) and she will have few other options. If they were really committed to her professional development, they would be offering her part-time work while she does the degree, not trying to divert her.

Having said all that, no one who is unsure what degree they want to do should be choosing media studies. It's fine if you want to work in the media (and is actually a much more rigorous degree than most people realise) but it has a terrible reputation outside the media. For the love of god, if she does go to Uni, try to swap her either onto a more traditional subject or something directly vocational.

As a chartered accountant who has seen people come up through both routes (uni vs on the job quals) I’d suggest taking the job and asking for a commitment to on the job training towards a recognised qualification. If it’s going to include learning the accounting system look at at AAT quals. Even if she doesn’t want to be an accountant having knowledge of how a business functions and makes money( or not!!) will stand her in good stead for so many long terms careers!

@Blackenedsoul

Please encourage her to go to university. She has the rest of her life to work - there's no rush! Whilst it sounds like a nice place, a small family business means that her office job will come with little offer of promotion or job progression. Also if you DD has no interest in formalised accountancy training she may have little to show in the way of transferable skills when she does decide to leave eventually.
I know everyone will say she can study at any time, which is technically true, but she'll never be 18 yo surrounded by mostly other 18 yo again. University experience is about so much more than study! She will meet new people and be exposed to so many new things. It's a chance for self development like no other. Please don't let her miss that.

@JaniceBattersby

Surprise, surprise, a queue of oracles telling everyone how a media degree is ‘second rate’ and not worth doing.

I did a media degree at a good uni. It was fantastic. I really enjoyed it.

Now I’ve got a great job in journalism and have won several awards (I did a PG Dip in my chosen field) and so have loads of people from my course. At least two are household name TV news presenters, one is a respected foreign correspondent, one is running a football club, two are v high up in government comms and loads are directors at ad firms and do fancy marketing jobs for which they get paid much more than me.

There are also loads who didn’t go into the media but have jobs in other fields. Some did teaching post grads and there are others who went in completely different directions, just like in any other degree subject.

I don’t regret doing media for a second. I had a wonderful experience at uni, learned loads and although the pay in journalism is terrible, I don’t think there’s any job I’d rather do. It really, really doesn’t have to be about the money.

I’d tell her to defer her course, work for a year and reconsider next year.

This isn’t a great example of the inherent value of a media degree - you could have done almost any humanities subject and then gone on to a PGDip in journalism.

Out of interest, how many media graduates do your high-powered colleagues currently employ in unpaid or very low-paid internships?

Lots of things to consider.
How good is she academically? What subjects/grades A levels? Can she realistically apply to a RG Uni? ( If she defers) or are we talking someone who only got mediocre A levels?
Anything less than 2.1 will/may handicap her progression. (Ist from lower ranking Uni.) Is she ambitious or does she just want an easy life?

Competition for Graduate Entry at good firms is fierce. Many postgrad courses - Law, Accountancy, Nursing, Medicine etc. available. Again funding available from some Firms or scholarships ( very competitive). Some Uni Course have options to spend a year abroad/ involve work experience /sandwich courses which may lead to a job. She should take up all such offers.

Often the real problem with 18 year old is that they have no idea what they want so Uni can give them the time and life experience to mature.
Uni is about growing up and learning to cope on your own. Living at home just will not do it. ( Are you still cooking for her, doing there washing, changing her bed ?

Is she happy staying at home / would flounder in a big city where she knows no one? Deferring will give her a year to think / mature. Many students ( more savvy) use their time at Uni to run Uni newspaper / help with Ents Shows / PT jobs in radio etc etc all in preparation for future careers.
I'd be worried about her finding it difficult to break away from the firm (loyalty). You need to explain to her that the moment they can get someone better/ cheaper they may / will sack her without a thought. Giving her 3+ more years before making important decisions is just what she needs.

Take the job!
Two of my DCs would be earning more now if they’d started jobs at 18 and trained on their jobs they’re doing rather than go to uni!
One uni sold it to them as being £250000 better off in a lifetime if they went to their uni! Sounds impressive but: over a nearly 50 year working life, the cost of living rising and the interest on their loans it just wasn’t worth it for them!
They’ve made fabulous friends in their work places too.

I may be unpopular for this opinion but I’d go to uni. 25k isn’t the best salary in the world. Also, what if the company folds? A degree will stay with you forever. Media is massive and it’s growing vastly. Lots of people are getting to middle age and realising they want to do an open uni course(which is great- my friend did a teaching degree after marriage and children) but it is definitely not the same experience. Like you say it is her choice though and I’m sure you’d support her what ever she decides. Lo

That is quite a low maximum salary. That is a very undefined degree topic. I would defer for a year and see how the job goes. A good company may support and part-pay for a relevant degree later on. She is right that a degree these days, even from a top uni, won't magic a job and a media degree will only be useful if they are assured it will provide vital training in a suitable area of media. However, if she has set her heart on working in media and the degree supports this, it's important to follow your dreams too! I would highly recommend looking at Open University or Birkbeck etc for Part-Time courses which you can do online and in the evenings so she could do her degree that way whilst earning money to pay for it. Her offered place may also be available in this way too.

"So if it’s about career prospects, she should stick with the job."

Career prospects isn't the same thing as how much money you earn and not everything in life is about money.

Definitely uni. 100% for me.

I know everyone will say she can study at any time, which is technically true, but she'll never be 18 yo surrounded by mostly other 18 yo again. University experience is about so much more than study! She will meet new people and be exposed to so many new things. It's a chance for self development like no other. Please don't let her miss that.

Do some of you know no 18 year olds? Do you not know what shite students at uni have been put through?

No clubs, no extra curriculars, sitting self-isolating in a room because another flatmate had been exposed to someone with covid...

I would not bargain on it warping back to normal by September. She should defer.

As someone who graduated with a degree in media I'd say take the job.

Defer the uni place and see how the job goes. I think it takes a bit of time to work out what career you want to do and studying a degree in media is so broad, in my experience I wasn't qualified to do anything when I finished.

Take the job. Defer uni. Rethink a better course than Media.

Defer uni for a year to see how the job goes. Jobs in media are very difficult to come by

if she takes this job it sounds like a good wage for the moment but the prospects may be slim to later on climb further up the ladder. If you have a degree in anything and started on the same terms she is being offered in this job she wd climb much faster through her life. Ive found this out thru being the 1 who had been to uni doing temp stuff after my media degree and being offered better jobs over other ppl who already worked there and didnt have a degree. That is 1 big point to think about. If she takes this job and then someone else with a degree comes in for the the higher position she may later want, the other person will get it. Sad but a true fact!