Would your school (primary ) accept these shoes?

[MrsBDarcy]

I had to buy these yesterday along with several other parents due to lack of options (3 shops tried) and huge queues at Clarks and unable to get to any other shops. Son's inside insole wore through rendering his current shoes super uncomfortable despite still looking ok. I'm hoping school don't say they're too trainer-ish as I can't afford to buy more and son was asked to make sure he got new shoes at weekend after he wore trainers on Friday. Help me have a polite response ready to say these are what he'll be wearing for a while ?

[quote SpringTides5]@SleepingStandingUp

The problem is once you start making exceptions to rules, everyone will be trying it on.

So the OP may well have a good reason for her DC to be in trainers, but if it is allowed this once, before long Ben's shoes will be at his dad's and he has to wear trainers for a day and Maisy's jumper will be in the washing and the rules cease to have any meaning at all.

There is also an issue of fairness to the other DC- why should they have to follow rules of others don't?

That's why many schools find it much better and more effective to take a zero tolerance approach to issues like homework and uniform.

More and more schools are moving to a 'no excuses' model and many of these schools are finding their way to the top of league tables because of it.
[/quote]
So, in OPs situation, how long would you keep your child off School without permission from the school if you couldn't find the right shoes because of the lockdown, or do you always keep 3 pairs in every size and just dispose of them unworn when they grow?

They'd be fine at ours as long as they are waterproof. They are completely black and are not canvas.

I also think that surely timmy and tammy who's parents are taking the piss on purpose can be dealt with separately. Its no reason to be on little David's case and throwing him put just cos he had to go stay with grandparents or go Into temp Foster care because his mums seriously ill in hospital and the last thing they give a shit about right now is shoes.

Adults should set the example of showing some compassion

they will simply be told to take their DC elsewhere if they are not willing to abide by the rules
My kids don't go to an Academy so not sure how it works @SpringTides5 but does the head have to formally suspend / exclude a child in this instance? My primary couldn't exclude a child because they wore a hand knitted jumper instead of the school one one Friday for example but can academies? Or is it more an "asked" to leave and pressure on the undesirable parent to leave and take their inadequate offspring with them?

I'd be minded to say "remember the pandemic, the same one that meant your unions prevented schools from opening over last summer, it's affected us all and that includes retailers. Please can you focus on the educating and not the clothes. The children have had a rough enough time and the small minded pettiness needs to be kept in the staffroom".

Well I wouldn't but you have my every sympathy op.

@Whatwouldscullydo

I also think that surely timmy and tammy who's parents are taking the piss on purpose can be dealt with separately. Its no reason to be on little David's case and throwing him put just cos he had to go stay with grandparents or go Into temp Foster care because his mums seriously ill in hospital and the last thing they give a shit about right now is shoes.

Adults should set the example of showing some compassion

Surely the head teacher takes in any children in that situation for as long as necessary to maintain standards? What if they went to a foster carer or grandparent who had kids in other schools and their pupil got tainted?

One would hope. I mean given they are probably the kids who could use being in school the most at that point.

I'd have absolutely loved it if dd's elite secondary had sent her home over a uniform infraction. It would never have happened we were compliant but I' have taken great delight in writing to the governors about a small minority who swore at staff, beat up a pupil and threatened pyromania if anyone crossed them. As well as disrupting almost every lesson. Nothing was done about it. Nothing. But staff exercised themselves significantly about uniform. It was most bizarre.

@ColinSupporter

“The thing is that the DCs' school and head makes no apologies for having high standards. All parents know the rules and policies in place when they enrol their DC- there are plenty of other schools with low standards to choose from elsewhere. “

Translation - we have found a legal way to ensure we can be exclusive and not take our fair share of children with special needs, with difficult backgrounds or from low income or chaotic families. By scaring off/pricing out the parents of those children we can ensure we only take the children of well off, middle class, highly organised parents who value high academic achievement and the correct footwear. We save lots of money we’d have to spend on those “less desirable” children and get good results from our selected-by-stealth cohort, which makes me look like a superb headteacher. We also ensure other schools with a more inclusive ethos take a disproportionate share of those children and are financially shafted, but we don’t care about that. Who cares about inclusivity, fairness, social tolerance, mental health or child development when you can look out on an assembly hall of perfectly behaved robots in blazers and proper footwear all silently smiling back at you.

It’s appalling it’s allowed.

This. Absolutely 100%.

I have some experience with exclusive private schools and the children/families at those schools and quite honestly, the worst part is how the children turn out. Lacking empathy or understanding of the world, only able to see one side of things. Believe all problems can be solved by "working hard". Of course, those children are also the ones who then go on to run our country so I guess their parents and schools don't care. Sigh.

@RosesAndHellebores

It's not just uniform that the DCs' school takes a zero tolerance approach to- behaviour is the same.

The head will not tolerate any poor behaviour. There are very few incidents because of this, but any DC who do behave badly are sent straight to the head's office.

Those who won't change their ways and behave are highly likely to find themselves out the door before too long!

There trainers

Our primary would be fine with those. They have taken a sensible approach to uniform, and as a result no one takes the piss as the actual uniform has several options.

@Triffid1 my ds attended one of those schools as did dd from age 13 having been woefully failed by an outstanding state secondary.

I think you are generalising and that is not my experience and your observation is somewhat disingenuous and akin to staying all dc at poorly performing schools are inadequate reprobates but that would be equally wrong wouldn't it.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Triffid1 my ds attended one of those schools as did dd from age 13 having been woefully failed by an outstanding state secondary.

I think you are generalising and that is not my experience and your observation is somewhat disingenuous and akin to staying all dc at poorly performing schools are inadequate reprobates but that would be equally wrong wouldn't it.[/quote]
I'm not saying all exclusive schools. I'm saying I've some experience where this has been the case. And I stand by that. Of course it's not all private schools, just not like all state schools are filled with underperformers.

The point I'm making is that SpringTides' (state) school sounds absolutely awful to me and, as others have pointed out (ColinSupporter particularly eloquently), that school (and some others) have sneaky ways to ensure they exclude children who might negatively impact their academic or other reputation. And in a state school, that's particularly reprehensible.

“The problem is once you start making exceptions to rules, everyone will be trying it on.”

Yeah, those pesky reasonable adjustments....

Do you apply all this “zero tolerance” stuff to yourself, as an adult? You’ve never driven 1 mph over the speed limit? Never been late for anything because of traffic or a late train? Never forgotten anything? Never snapped at anyone in anger? Never ever had to ask for forgiveness or leniency or a favour or a compassionate response from anyone?

[quote SpringTides5]@RosesAndHellebores

It's not just uniform that the DCs' school takes a zero tolerance approach to- behaviour is the same.

The head will not tolerate any poor behaviour. There are very few incidents because of this, but any DC who do behave badly are sent straight to the head's office.

Those who won't change their ways and behave are highly likely to find themselves out the door before too long![/quote]
So what would you have done in ops position? Suddenly finding that the shoes DS should wear tomorrow are broken and only being able to get the ones op did?

Would school permanently exclude a child walking in with those shoes or bully the parents until they withdraw?

What of you sent one sibling then 5he next sibling started but it became clear they had additional needs that didn't fit into the strict codes? Would you leave one child there and shove another in the local comp?

I take it that's not to me because I said earlier that I think the attitude to shoes and other petty issues is reprehensible.

I'd have hoped that one improvement from this period would have been the sweeping away of small minded, petty rules to focus on the principle reason to attend school which is academic and functional learning.

My DC are grown up now and I am increasingly coming to the view that uniform should be abolished. Not my view at all when my dc were small but years of seeing the misplaced emphasis on small minded petty rules and frankly the French version of jeans, tshirt, trainers, sweat shirt/jersey is incomparably better than the UK's cheap polyester trousers or rolled up skirt, shapeless polyester blazer, greying shirt, and white ankle socks.

I knew it would only be a matter of time after the last year that a head and band of teachers would start meeting about hair cuts and shoes.

Mewling not meeting.

@SleepingStandingUp

What would have happened at the DCs' school is that the class teacher would have red lighted the DC concerned. The head would then have collected them and took the DC to her office to see whether the situation could be resolved.

At the very least, a DC in incorrect uniform is sent home until the problem is solved. They will then serve three days of after school detention upon return to school.

So, for example, a four year old falls over in a muddy puddle outside their home, soaking their shoes and blazer, they can't attend school and get detention... And you think that's good?

And if the problem is a hospitalisation or sudden redundancy . What then?

How's it the kids fault their parent is sick? Sorry your mum has cancer but it's detention for thr next 3 days because you left your blazer at home when your gramps came to get you at 2am ?

[quote SpringTides5]@SleepingStandingUp

What would have happened at the DCs' school is that the class teacher would have red lighted the DC concerned. The head would then have collected them and took the DC to her office to see whether the situation could be resolved.

At the very least, a DC in incorrect uniform is sent home until the problem is solved. They will then serve three days of after school detention upon return to school.[/quote]
That's just insane
Why do you think that this is a good thing?
You are penalising a child for something outwith their control.

[quote SpringTides5]@SleepingStandingUp

What would have happened at the DCs' school is that the class teacher would have red lighted the DC concerned. The head would then have collected them and took the DC to her office to see whether the situation could be resolved.

At the very least, a DC in incorrect uniform is sent home until the problem is solved. They will then serve three days of after school detention upon return to school.[/quote]
This sounds very extreme

So if, for example, on a school morning, it’s discovered that a primary school child’s blazer is accidentally irreparably torn / tie is lost / shoes break etc etc - that child won’t be allowed into school until the parent can source replacements? Not under any circumstances?

And you think this is a good thing?

My boys would be fine with these in both primary and high school. When they were in pre primary they didn’t even have to wear shoes in the class !! ( like reception in UK)

They would be totally fine at my dc's school. Both mine (ds and dd) wear the black trainer type school shoes.

They're not too fussy as long as they're black. Kids go in all sorts of trainers there though. It's mostly ignored sometimes the teachers say something but there are some families who don't take any notice or maybe have no choice. My ds said his school shoes were starting to hurt so he's gone in his army coloured running trainers for a few days until I can get him some more black ones. Nobody has even mentioned them.

I think the school is classed as being in an area with a high percentage of underprivileged families so maybe that's why they are pretty tolerant, which is good.