The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

[Marcia1989]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

@MintyCedric

Regardless of anything else I can't see how anyone could possibly think it's responsible to bring 9 children into the world, let alone have the last one with no support at the age of 46.

That said, good luck to them, but I'd hardly hold them up as paragons of virtue.

Pretty sure she wasn't 46.

@tanguero

What do I think ? They run an upland sheep farm, and like every other upland sheep farm in the country, it's basically a 'job creation scheme'. The average upland sheep farm in Britain gets 86% of its income from taxpayer subsidies. Nice work if you can get it !

Where did you get that made up statistic from?

We farm in conditions that are so harsh/upland that when we sell breeding stock at the auction mart it's often announced that they have been reared at X ft above sea level to show how hardy they are likely to be.

Our basic payment, moorland payment and our entry level stewardship payments (subsidies) currently make up somewhere between a fifth to a quarter of our annual income depending on the markets that year.

The ELS basically pays for the additional winter feed costs and off wintering for stock we have agreed to remove from the fells during winter.

The basic payment means that we can afford to sell at a price that supermarkets are currently willing to pay. Farm subsidies don't subsidise farmers they subsidise food costs for the public. Farmers in theory should make the same money with or without subsidies, but the public would have to pay the difference directly from their own pockets rather than indirectly via tax.

Even with subsidies many upland farmers still have to top up that income through diversification. Which is what Amanda has done.

@Veterinari

Upland farmers work bloody hard not only to put food on our tables but also to protect and maintain the upland landscape. Not least maintaining water courses and helping to prevent flooding downstream. It's not an easy job and not for the faint hearted. Subsidies enable this work to continue.

I agree that upland farmers work hard. But the food they produce is relatively small considering the enormous amounts of land used (uplands are very unproductive) and we still import a lot of meat. Naturally that landscape would have been forested and supported a wide array of biodiversity as well as trees naturally maintaining water tables.

I think we're so used to barren Dales as countryside that we forget they are in fact an entirely artificial creation and that mixed woodland with a range of wildlife is actually the natural state

I agree. But the reality is that those landscapes now exist. Rightly or wrongly. I guess in the ideal world a significant proportion would be reforested but in reality their isn't the will power or the funds to do so. Allowing the landscape to naturally fix itself would in the short/medium term make it completely no productive and a huge fire risk.

In fairness, I think people would warm to her if she wasn't quite so "I'm right and everyone else is wrong/snowflakes/my parenting is right and yours is wrong"

Generally, she’s not at all like that, having watched from the beginning. Bit funny about eye contact, tho. I think they all work very hard. Her dress sense is curious given the lifestyle, the amount of jangling bangles made me think of a certain culture. If you look at the first series compared to now, she’s definitely had her eyes done.

I find it sad that Raven was scared to learn to drive whereas the eldest boy was already confident on tractors etc tho much younger. Raven did look after the younger ones a lot, by her own admission during a programme, which I think is really unfair. She didn’t choose to have them. The kids do seem very well-rounded.

It’s interesting that we never see much of the interior of the house, but various shots have shown ripped wallpaper, it doesn’t look well maintained but I guess all the energy is external, animal husbandry, running the air bnb/doing cream teas-note Raven being pressed into service as a waitress but the eldest boy didn’t appear to be involved.

In fairness, I think people would warm to her if she wasn't quite so "I'm right and everyone else is wrong/snowflakes/my parenting is right and yours is wrong"

Generally, she’s not at all like that, having watched from the beginning. Bit funny about eye contact, tho. I think they all work very hard. Her dress sense is curious given the lifestyle, the amount of jangling bangles made me think of a certain culture. If you look at the first series compared to now, she’s definitely had her eyes done.

I agree with her. It doesn't matter if she's pretty or famous or clever or whatever. She has raised her kids to be independent and to deal with things many parents think their little darlings couldn't possibly cope with.

We have a real problem in our society right now with kids going off to university unprepared to live an independent life.

It absolutely grinds my gears when someone who makes their living from influencing/TV slags off other people for watching TV/using social media (which I think is what the 'screens' comment meant.) It's just fucking rude.

Allowing the landscape to naturally fix itself would in the short/medium term make it completely no productive and a huge fire risk.

That's interesting @Dobbyafreeelf

In what way would the fire risk increase? Wouldn't increased woodland/shade/dampness help?

I feel like rarely a summer goes by without an uncontrolled moorland blaze, and when the peat catches it burns long and hard

Agree that reforestation is unfeasible but I do a bit of an eye roll when folk mention conservation and uplands. Yes of course there are important SSI but there's an awful lot of barren land too

@midsomermurderess

I won't waste my time on people who use terms like 'snowflake'. You have made it clear that you have nothing useful, considered or intelligent to bring to a discussion. But this is for the Daily Mail, whose readers are the epitome of low information and low education. Really, why bother.

Wow! Whether you like that paper or not, I'm pretty sure not all the readers are of 'low education'

I didn't think this type of snobbery still existed.

@HoldontoOneMoreDay

It absolutely grinds my gears when someone who makes their living from influencing/TV slags off other people for watching TV/using social media (which I think is what the 'screens' comment meant.) It's just fucking rude.

This!

'She has raised her kids to be independent and to deal with things many parents think their little darlings couldn't possibly cope with.'

Yes but what a shame she is so judgemental about others. People aren't snowflakes, it is a rather bizarre generalisation.

She is a reality star selling their lifestyle. It is all a bit tacky imo. I bet she'll be on gmb, This Morning and Jeremy vine all this week ironically promoting their fabulous no telly life.

I wouldn’t describe anyone who markets their children as a good parent.

I’ve also never met an intelligent person who uses silly meaningless terms like ‘snowflake’.

I did enjoy the amazing courageous incredible self-reliant spin on ‘Woman Gives Birth’ though. It made me laugh.

I didn't think this type of snobbery still existed.

Rather ironic given that the interview was with the Radio Times and the DM have pilfered it. Apparently that poster didn't have the 'education' to check her sources.

I don't like the term snowflakes but I love Amanda, Clive and their DC.

Yes the programme will be edited, but you can't fake the respectful way the children speak to one another when they are filmed by themselves.

And I agree with her point in some ways, if children are entitled, then they are not to blame, they have just been brought up with their parents providing lots of material things for them, and more damaging, solving problems for them.

I disagree with everyone on here who is saying that the DC don't get a broad preparation for life on a farm. I've been privileged to become friends with some farmers over the past few years and crikey they have won my full respect. The ones I know can be awkward buggers, but they are hard-working, independent, and are not only skilled in animal husbandry and agriculture, but also in building, marketing, accounting, sales, land management, drainage, transport etc etc...I could go on. As far as I have observed, about every single problem a child might encounter in life is encountered on a farm. They are witnessing life and death and everything in between. And the children are being brought up and helping out in a commercial concern. I guess if one of the children wanted to be a high-flying academic, then they might not have sufficient grades, but having said that, Amanda's books are very intelligently and humourously written and she has a deep interest in local history and the history of agriculture in their area, which comes across in the books, and she is fostering the same in the DC. They are a resourceful family, so I've no doubt they could seek out extra learning support if necessary.

My only concern about it all is the DC potentially getting too much exposure and publicity in this social media age and it damages them in some way.

Yes but what a shame she is so judgemental about others

Oh, the irony.

Oops sorry for the double post. Pressed paste by mistake!

Yes but what a shame she is so judgemental about others. People aren't snowflakes, it is a rather bizarre generalisation.

She's not judgemental if you read the interview. It's just that some people on here are quite insecure and paranoid and take her general comments personally.

The snowflake generation are so-called for a reason. She's not saying anything that is not generally acknowledged - that this generation of children are more mollycoddled and less independent than previous generations.

I’m surprised she never caught orf on her thighs in those miniskirts...

Seriously though, they are living their dream and make their lifestyle work for them (with a healthy dose of tv money which doesn’t reflect the financial knife edge that many farmers live on) their kids seem happy and well brought up, well done them.

We have a lot of farming friends and family and it isn’t all idyllic, family rifts over inheritances, suicides and near-drownings in slurry pits to name a few.

It annoys me when she is used as a stick to beat other mothers when most are just doing their best in their own circumstances, battling depression just to get up every morning, bringing up disabled children on their own or providing healthy meals on an absolute shoe string for example. There’s no medal for choosing to have a baby on your own, in a remote place with no midwife - in fact she should not be actively promoting this. It figures that a publication such as the DM would feature her in such a way to indicate that modern mothers are rubbish and their kids are “snowflakes”

@cerealgamechanger

She must have nannies and private tutors for the children. There is no way, she could manage all that on her own. Or maybe this is Yorkshire and the children's 'hard as nails' genes are seeing them through.

They go to school...

'She's not judgemental if you read the interview. It's just that some people on here are quite insecure and paranoid and take her general comments personally.'

I'm neither insecure nor paranoid. I'm sure there are entitled dc about but to suggest there's a generation if them is goady and untrue. I'm guessing she's doing it to be controversial and get lots of daytime telly invites.

Absolutely nobody should be having nine kids.

[quote SimonJT]@Veterinari She has been at home through lockdown as her degree course does not have practical elements. Also multiple scenes of Raven teaching the children who are studying using ipads.[/quote]
Many older siblings taught younger ones during lockdown.

Why is that a problem?

@Oioioioo

I don’t have much time for women who hold their parenting up as some kind of ‘right’ way to raise kids. Her kids are having an unique childhood, whether they’ll turn into decent adults, who the f knows? ESP. if schoolwork or education isn’t high up in their priorities. My kids are city kids, I value education, I homeschooled Then when I had to but they sure as hell aren’t snowflakes just because they don’t ride scramblers around a farm. 9 kids and a husband who won’t be around too much longer with that age gap... plenty of people would judge that set up.

Bloody hell!

He's the same age as me - in his 60s! He's got years yet!

And farmers don't generally retire

@DateLoaf what are you going to do about it?

@DateLoaf

Absolutely nobody should be having nine kids.

When someone with nine kids expects you to fund them you have a say. It’s none of your business. I’m pretty happy for someone like her to have nine kids, they’re going to make a worthwhile contribution to society with that upbringing.

I feel very sorry for the oldest girl. She's stuck looking after kids she didn't choose to have.

Same as the Radfords really.