The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

[Marcia1989]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

(Off to tend my own animals now! Wishing everyone a good day but don't like a woman with nine kids being slammed on here. She may be doing the TV appearances to save for her kids uni fund. None of us know their circumstances for sure. Peace and love. )

@eatsleepread

I think it's just as well the children are self-sufficient. They have older parents (dad is 66!), who won't be around forever.

Nice

I think it’s important to separate the person and their personality and opinions that they are entirely entitled to have, the life they live and are happy to share on tv, and the way that the media uses that person as a spokesperson for a particular cause or to represent something far beyond the person who is just doing “them”. I hope Amanda didn’t use the term snowflake about other people’s children. I’d imagine if you met her she’d be supportive and friendly to any other parent.

I agree about the outdoors, nature and responsibility element being important and can be injected to some degree into every childhood. My daughter learned about reproduction when wondering about bulling cows and why dogs get stuck together, she feeds our animals and is helpful at home, sometimes helps daddy at work (agricultural industry). She can also spend a fair part of the day on her phone with ear phones in and a mardy face on, that’s normal isn’t it? I know that we are really fortunate to have this link to the countryside though. It’s just sad that many children can’t spend any time on their own anywhere because of the risks of road safety, teen-on-teen violence in some areas, gosh even novichok in the park was a worry in Salisbury for a while. I don’t let her walk the dog on her own any more as we’ve had violent dog thefts in the area recently, even though it’s a sleepy semi rural town.
We’re all just doing what we can in our situation, I think Amanda has a lot of value and experience to bring to the conversation. But I’m sure she wouldn’t like to be the poster girl for a lifestyle which is unattainable for most in order to make others feel bad.

Sounds like shit and neglectful parenting to me. You don’t have to completely leave children to their own devices to develop independence. She’s boasting about not attending parents evening at the school, that’s not something to be proud of. All she gives a shit about it pumping out a bunch of unpaid farmhands.

@Veterinari

Put them in a city and would they be streetwise? Do you know how much rural crime occurs - for example in relation to quad bike thefts? It can be fairly significant. And they live less than 90 minutes from Manchester with plenty of other towns nearby.

Put them in an investment bank as a new grad and could they cope with 80 hour weeks?

Is that how you measure success as a parent?
Odd metric to choose

It's not odd to select the antithesis of their current life and upbringing and ask how they would cope is it?

Any more than it is for AO to condemn children and families who can't muck in and do physical work.

Working the land and being able to ride a tractor or a quadbike and call other people 'snowflakes' if they can't, is rather odd in my opinion.

Her idea of independence seems to be to have all the kids helping out with everything or just left to their own devices and to place very little importance on school. I don't really see what's to admire (although I've not watched her tv show). To me opportunities come from education and independence comes from getting older and growing up. There's no benefit to being independent at 8 instead of at 18.

Farming is a very difficult life (I grew up on one), it's not a life I'd encourage my kids into, there are no breaks, days start at 5:30, nights can go on all night in all weathers and the money is terrible. If I was her I'd be encouraging my kids education to give them as many options as possible. It's seems she had little education so she sees little value in it which I think is very sad.

Well she presumably feels the urgency in her own situation. I’m sure she’s done well financially but the reality is her workload will increase as Clive ages. She has all these bright kids to potentially put through uni. I wouldn’t blame her for accepting every paid opportunity while she’s young and fit.

@Needahand42

You say parents, so you had both parents, so the potential for 2 wages even if this was not always possible? 2 parents to help carry the load instead of one? Any major health issues either in parents or children? You say suburban and had a garden so easily accessible safe green space?

We mostly roamed woods and fields so I guess it depends on your idea if 'safe' Yes I had two parents - but I strongly suspect that had I had one there would have been an even stronger emphasis on contributing to the household, not less.

Can you appreciate even having the above while being poor are advantages many many people don't have so can't make use of the principles based on these? Teaching kids the whole family works together is fairly basic yes, but how would that have been underpinned if you'd had one parent with mental health issues, lived in a tower block in a less than safe neighborhood and they'd not been around much due to working long hours?

Yes of course there are limitations - that is why I clearly said that 'some of those principles can be replicated' not that everyone can live exactly as the Owen's do

Regardless of those limitations there are plenty of families who don't live with all of the challenges you describe, and who could apply some principles from the Owens if they chose, which is what the OP asked for, and is the context in which my answer was given.

I haven’t seen the show but it sounds a bit neglectful to me. Independence comes as much from feeling emotionally supported by your parents and knowing they are interested in you than having chores to do. Boasting about not attending parents evenings? Not something to be proud of. This woman sounds like all she’s interested in is pumping out a bunch of unpaid farm hands.

@MolotovMocktail

I haven’t seen the show but it sounds a bit neglectful to me. Independence comes as much from feeling emotionally supported by your parents and knowing they are interested in you than having chores to do. Boasting about not attending parents evenings? Not something to be proud of. This woman sounds like all she’s interested in is pumping out a bunch of unpaid farm hands.

I love this. Essentially 'I clearly know nothing about this family and haven't bothered to do any research, but that won't stop me from making unkind and inaccurate assumptions based on my own prejudices and ignorance'

looking sexy while nursing a baby and simultaneously fixing a tractor

I’m being brutally honest here, the idyllic background is a huge plus, it makes it all look so wonderful , but honestly 9 kids in small house sounds just insane, how do you look after/ give them the attention they need? I sometimes can’t get over just how messy everything is 😖.

'You don’t have to completely leave children to their own devices to develop independence. She’s boasting about not attending parents evening at the school, that’s not something to be proud of. '

Yes it is fascinating how she thinks her hands off approach is the right one. Surely there is a happy medium, we can all limit screen time, teach a good work ethic, but also show an interest in them and their schooling.

The pride about delivering her 8th baby alone with the cat, again why the smugness? Remote locations have community midwives, who surprise surprise are used to travelling distances. Many women experience complications it isnt anything about being 'soft' or not.

Hang on, just off to buy a rural farmstead...

As a mother who is pretty strict about screens and getting outdoor time, I have to say having a rural farm I could shove my kids off into would make all of that a hell of a lot easier.

I'd be interested to see if she could foster that same independence, self-reliance and freedom in the mean streets of a town or city. Perhaps she could! Now that would be worth watching/reading about.

Fair play to her - entertaining and inspirational stuff. But not very realistic. I'd be more impressed to see urban parents who manage to rear their children with those same values, against all of the endless daily battles with technology, long working hours, the internet, social media, cramped urban housing etc.

Parents who mange that - I salute them and would love to know how they do it. VERY infrequently I'm even one of them. It's mentally exhausting - saying no, turning things off, dealing with the arguments, trying to get them to go into the garden, dragging the family on long reluctant walks. In some ways, sheep farming might actually be easier.

@Tal45

Her idea of independence seems to be to have all the kids helping out with everything or just left to their own devices and to place very little importance on school. I don't really see what's to admire (although I've not watched her tv show). To me opportunities come from education and independence comes from getting older and growing up. There's no benefit to being independent at 8 instead of at 18.

Farming is a very difficult life (I grew up on one), it's not a life I'd encourage my kids into, there are no breaks, days start at 5:30, nights can go on all night in all weathers and the money is terrible. If I was her I'd be encouraging my kids education to give them as many options as possible. It's seems she had little education so she sees little value in it which I think is very sad.

So you didn't see her supporting her elder daughter to revise hard and go to uni?

But just assumed it didn't happen...

I am in the minority but I found it difficult to buy into the image portrayed. She appeared to be able to fit in so much that I found myself laughing. There she was - baby strapped to her back while she portrayed a shepherdess, then over to her running a tea shop, then lots of home made bread, pies etc. Then how effortlessly she produced babies and cared for the family. Of course she would give birth away from a hospital and with no trouble. Now she is a writer and photographer! Come on now do you think the tv script writers have produced this image or is it real. Personally, I can’t be bothered with these so called reality productions.

@MillyMollyMandyish

It's not odd to select the antithesis of their current life and upbringing and ask how they would cope is it?
Well her elder daughter is studying science at uni in a city so I think the answer is better than you may assume

Any more than it is for AO to condemn children and families who can't muck in and do physical work.
Has she actually said this? Can you link to this? I've read her books and watched her in TV and never heard a sentiment like this expressed. So I think if you're attacking her based on this attitude then it's helpful to corroborate it.

Working the land and being able to ride a tractor or a quadbike and call other people 'snowflakes' if they can't, is rather odd in my opinion.
that's definitely not what she said. I disagree with her use of the word snowflake, but do think misrepresenting what she said to try and prove your point is helpful either.

If you haven’t watched the TV programmes it’s easy to make assumptions. You need to watch them and how they interact. See how they speak to each other and what is going on. Of course it’s edited, but the loving way they interact, their resourcefulness and can do attitude is really admirable.

@HappydaysArehere

I am in the minority but I found it difficult to buy into the image portrayed. She appeared to be able to fit in so much that I found myself laughing. There she was - baby strapped to her back while she portrayed a shepherdess, then over to her running a tea shop, then lots of home made bread, pies etc. Then how effortlessly she produced babies and cared for the family. Of course she would give birth away from a hospital and with no trouble. Now she is a writer and photographer! Come on now do you think the tv script writers have produced this image or is it real. Personally, I can’t be bothered with these so called reality productions.

Maybe she is just the miss rabbit to my mummy pig... I couldn’t get all that done in a day either

They have a busy farm life. Wish I had that upbringing, the freedom the adventures, matter of face life and death. I think her and her husband are bloody amazing and the kids are able to follow their own dreams. The eldest boy is /was doing a mechanics on farm machinery. I love Tony the pony . Good on them. What i wouldn’t give to swap my urban crap for the freedom of the hills

I struggle to take parenting advice from anyone who commodifies their dc.

YABU for linking to the Daily Heil.

You are also BU because if 1989 in your username reflects the year you were born you are fair too young to be referring to people as "snowflakes".

@Oldbeams

Realistic

It all sounds rather miserable for the children. They have a 3 hour round trip to school every day then are expected to help out on the farm on top of that.

I wonder what attracted her to this older man with his 1000 acre farm.

Working the land and being able to ride a tractor or a quadbike and call other people 'snowflakes' if they can't, is rather odd in my opinion

But she didn’t say that. She commented on a work ethic and independence. Those qualities can be encouraged / nurtured in any environment including a small flat in the inner city.

She doesn’t just let her kids run feral and leave them to get in with it: she shows them how to do things, let’s them experience it and then let’s them build on their skills. Having watched the programme I wished I could have revisited some of my early parenting and used some of her enabling, encouraging ethos more.

She also encourages and enables the kids’ individual interests and passions, like when they bought one son an old bit of machinery for him to restore.

The kids were shown home schooling in lockdown, she spent a day investigating the history of a barn with them, I don’t think it is fair to say she doesn’t care about their education.

I would loved to have loved those kids lives, as a child - from what I see, albeit we know it is edited etc.