Manager wants us to have in-person meetings of 15 from next week

[Wilker]

As in the title really... Apparently we are going to be having in person indoor meetings of 15 people from April 12th, and 30 people from May 17th.

Absolutely no business need for these meetings to be happening in person. We are all admin/office staff and have been working fine from home.

I wanted to check whether they are even legal? Aren’t the 15/30 people gatherings permitted for weddings only?

The instant excuse at the moment for any sub-par service is always “due to Covid”. Some might query why, if everyone is working so efficiently and effectively from home, there are so many examples of unanswered emails, massive phone queues. Every instance of slow responses is always due to Covid, but that obviously doesn’t match up with the idea that wfh is universally successful

@pointyshoes instant excuse not the reason why service is poor from these companies. Notably those ones that only provide as minimal a customer service as they can get away with- banks, BT, Ryanair come to mind.

Nothing to do with wfh at all.

[quote CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]@pointyshoes instant excuse not the reason why service is poor from these companies. Notably those ones that only provide as minimal a customer service as they can get away with- banks, BT, Ryanair come to mind.

Nothing to do with wfh at all.[/quote]
I did say”some might query “. I’m certainly not as au fait with the day to day workings of the above companies, as you seem to be so I won’t make the obvious comment

Oh please it’s not illegal to go to a work meeting.

[quote CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]@pointyshoes instant excuse not the reason why service is poor from these companies. Notably those ones that only provide as minimal a customer service as they can get away with- banks, BT, Ryanair come to mind.

Nothing to do with wfh at all.[/quote]
Previously crap customer service is absolutely appalling now and everything else is just plain crap. People may not be voting with their feet just yet but they will and companies will either respond by pulling their staff back into the office of losing significant amounts of business...I wonder which they'll go for?

@pointyshoes

The instant excuse at the moment for any sub-par service is always “due to Covid”. Some might query why, if everyone is working so efficiently and effectively from home, there are so many examples of unanswered emails, massive phone queues. Every instance of slow responses is always due to Covid, but that obviously doesn’t match up with the idea that wfh is universally successful

Yep I fully agree there!

Lots of conflation on here of employers being able to decide with employers knowing best. The former is indisputable, the latter definitely not.

Managers are people paid to take decisions, not all-knowing demigods. It is entirely possible for a worker to understand more about their own productivity than their manager. It is entirely possible for a manager to be motivated by resistance to change or personal preference rather than cold facts.

Doesn’t alter the fact they issue the instructions of course, but the “you may think you’re productive, but Boss knows better” posts are naive.

I can assure you that I am about as far from naive as it is possible to be
It is a fact in my business (not all businesses)
that WFH is not as effective for the business as a whole

@user1487194234

I can assure you that I am about as far from naive as it is possible to be It is a fact in my business (not all businesses) that WFH is not as effective for the business as a whole

Same - we are most definitely moving back to the office, stuff is getting done but not as effectively as it was. We aim to be the best not just the plod alongs who survive.

@user1487194234 - I haven’t said that it’s never the case that wfh is less effective or that some employers rightly assess that to be the case. I don’t think you’re naive to understand this is the case for your business.

I’m talking about the comments that always pop up on threads on this topic where an op questions an employer decision and posters respond along the lines mentioned in my post - “you think x, but your manager obviously knows y.”

I can’t know who is right in an individual post as you’re only getting one side of the story, but I certainly don’t believe it will always be the employer or manager!

[quote ClafoutisSurprise]@user1487194234 - I haven’t said that it’s never the case that wfh is less effective or that some employers rightly assess that to be the case. I don’t think you’re naive to understand this is the case for your business.

I’m talking about the comments that always pop up on threads on this topic where an op questions an employer decision and posters respond along the lines mentioned in my post - “you think x, but your manager obviously knows y.”

I can’t know who is right in an individual post as you’re only getting one side of the story, but I certainly don’t believe it will always be the employer or manager![/quote]
The employer may not always know everything - this is almost certainly true but given it's the employer who is running the company and making the decisions which result in the delivery of your pay packet every month, maybe you need to have a little faith that they actually do know what they are talking about most of the time and if you don't maybe it's time you found yourself another job!

Part of the issue is that the employees see it from their point of view,understandably,whereas the employer is looking at the bigger picture

Completely agree that people working for poor employers / managers should find themselves an alternative if they can. Thankfully this isn’t a situation I’m in as, while I may not agree with every last thing, I feel confidence in management. I’ve worked other places where this was not the case, though. So I don’t read a post and automatically believe the company or line manager must be right as some posters do.

The tone of your post is exactly what I’m talking about. Most of us are relatively intelligent adults and therefore capable of perceiving when an instruction is nonsense or motivated by petty factors. That’s completely different from following that instruction because you want or need to stay in the job.

I think this is far less about people’s fear of the risk and more about the fact that people have become comfortable working from home and aren’t keen to go back.

And from an employer’s point of view they will be keen to get people back into the office as soon as possible, because while many people can work just as effectively from home, most really do not. Not least because most people don’t have the self discipline to be able to focus purely on work without e.g. getting up to put the washing on/flick through mn for a bit/not bother to even get dressed etc.

And zoom meetings really aren’t the same.

I suspect more employers will start to do this so as to ease people back into the office.

I think this is far less about people’s fear of the risk and more about the fact that people have become comfortable working from home and aren’t keen to go back. Agree and I think post like this one will continue to make frequent appearances regardless of the Covid risk.

I think this is far less about people’s fear of the risk and more about the fact that people have become comfortable working from home and aren’t keen to go back.

Definitely agree with this! Work /life balance is much better WFH. No commute, more relaxed pace, flexible hours for SOME.
They are many who hate it (cramped conditions, too many distractions etc) but I think others are fighting against going back because it’s worked really well for them.

For all the wfh evangelists who refuse to even contemplate any drop in efficiency, I could give a dozen examples of extremely poor customer service during the pandemic. As in even worse than usual. But that would just be anecdotal. However, wfh is not always effective. The DVLA have suspended driving licence renewals for licences which expired between Feb-dec 2020 and they are now all automatically extended by 11 months. According to the DVLA this is due to corona virus. So, the reason wfh may be working for them is because they have decided not to provide a full, usual service. In addition, any paper applications are taking longer as they can’t be processed by people wfh.

I could give a dozen examples of extremely poor customer service during the pandemic.

Oh God yes. From insurance companies to banking to online ordering. Everything seems to be running at snail 🐌 pace. It’s as if phone lines have been cut off to some.
I’ve resorted to using the message function on Twitter or the chat function on websites if I want any kind of decent response.

[quote ClafoutisSurprise]@user1487194234 - I haven’t said that it’s never the case that wfh is less effective or that some employers rightly assess that to be the case. I don’t think you’re naive to understand this is the case for your business.

I’m talking about the comments that always pop up on threads on this topic where an op questions an employer decision and posters respond along the lines mentioned in my post - “you think x, but your manager obviously knows y.”

I can’t know who is right in an individual post as you’re only getting one side of the story, but I certainly don’t believe it will always be the employer or manager![/quote]
To return to my original post, I do think that there are many people who much prefer wfh - and who can blame them . As a result I think their reluctance to return to their actual workplace is less to do with safety fears, and much more to do with absolutely not wanting to return . Any reason will suffice

Does every post on Mumsnet need to go back to teachers? Do teacher actually like kids and understand they deserve an education? In all the moaning and groaning I rarely see any thought to the kids they are getting paid to teach

@borntobequiet

I teach adults. Up to 12 people in the same room for six hours a day for four days. All from different workplaces. Social distancing impossible, and I can’t require them to use face coverings (though generally they do, unprompted - they’re uncomfortable too). Luckily my classroom has magical anti-Covid properties and I have been vaccinated because I’m over 60. Managers come in one or two days a week and are mostly alone in offices. Most other staff are working from home most of the time. It’s such a bizarre situation.

Where is this? The teaching must be essential? This sounds unusual teaching all day long every day.

@saraclara

There's going to be such a social divide coming out of this. It's like something from a dystopian novel.

The 'important' people with their multi million pound projects will be working from their comfortable safe homes. The drones, ensuring that those pale can be fed, their houses kept light and warm, their Amazon purchases delivered, and their children kept out of their way, are out in the scary world, beavering away and providing all the Queen/King bees needs.

I think you need to get out and get some fresh air

@Missushbb

Does every post on Mumsnet need to go back to teachers? Do teacher actually like kids and understand they deserve an education? In all the moaning and groaning I rarely see any thought to the kids they are getting paid to teach

You could say that the people on here fretting about working alongside others in an office are paid to do just that. Moaning and groaning because they have to share a space with the same people everyday when others (NHS staff, shop workers, teachers, the police, emergency services) are literally in close contact with different groups of people every day. They sound ridiculous.

This sounds unusual teaching all day long every day.

Are you joking? Most days are full. 5 hrs PPA a fortnight.

This sounds unusual teaching all day long every day.

Have you ever heard of school? Literally what happens all day every day.