Manager wants us to have in-person meetings of 15 from next week

[Wilker]

As in the title really... Apparently we are going to be having in person indoor meetings of 15 people from April 12th, and 30 people from May 17th.

Absolutely no business need for these meetings to be happening in person. We are all admin/office staff and have been working fine from home.

I wanted to check whether they are even legal? Aren’t the 15/30 people gatherings permitted for weddings only?

No ones goading teachers. This thread was about the legal situation regarding office workers but teachers can't resist making it about them. It would be amusing if it weren't so tiresome.

You are and again, yes, it is legal for workers to return to offices both public sector and private sector.

DH’s firm are keeping WFH, reducing office space. Their productivity has not gone down.

I would be asking how they are risk assessing the meeting

I wanted to check whether they are even legal? Aren’t the 15/30 people gatherings permitted for weddings only?

This is the question that the OP asked.

It is perfectly reasonable for people who work in rooms with 30 others-including teachers-to reply and say it’s legal.

There are lots of people who feel they can work just as effectively from home. In reality, many employers do not agree. Ultimately it’s the employer’s decision

Ilikewinter
Agree 100%. Thousands of workers all over the country have had to go into work. I work in a warehouse and we all wear masks, use the hand sanitizer.

@Bonariensis

OP I think it is fair enough to ask your manager for details of the precautions which are being taken to ensure these meetings are covid safe and a copy of the risk assessment and I suggest you do so.

I will do this, thank you.

Lots to think about from reading all your responses.

@FusionChefGeoff

The instruction is meetings must be 'essential' 'cannot be delayed' and 'cannot be done from home' so it's a very high bar to bring people together at the moment.

I have recently consulted a lawyer on this specific question in a professional capacity.

From the sounds of it there is absolutely no reason why these meetings cannot take place online, as they have been doing for the past 12 months. No business need whatsoever for us all to be packed inside a stuffy room.

We’ve been having full staff meetings the whole time.

The “other people do it” argument doesn’t really wash though- I work in healthcare and have worked throughout on site. But my workplace has still been different, even if much of the job itself can’t be socially distanced. We limit the number of staff in a room at any one time and we have our meetings on teams (even though a lot of us are in the same building, we don’t have a room big enough for us all to be together in a covid secure way, so we spread out in to different rooms and do the meeting virtually). We’ve even done our resus training online. Of the staff room is at capacity at lunchtime we go somewhere else. Just because we can’t do all of our job at 2 meters doesn’t mean we can’t reduce the risks elsewhere. It’s the difference between a positive case taking out one or two people vs a whole team. The risks can’t be eliminated but they can be reduced significantly.

At our local schools, staff meetings are either in the school hall or online, definitely not in the staff room

@pointyshoes

There are lots of people who feel they can work just as effectively from home. In reality, many employers do not agree. Ultimately it’s the employer’s decision

Yep.

If the online meetings have been as successful as OP thinks, then management wouldn't be asking for face-to-face ones. And if everyone who works from home is being as efficient as they think they are (which I doubt) then clearly there are other aspects that management with an overview of their business are seeing, which they do not.

I'd ask for their Covid strategies for keeping you all safe, then get on with it and enjoy a bit of normality, personally.

I think I would be trying a different tack as well.

From what little I know, some Managers like people to be in the office because they themselves like to be.
And some Managers like staff working from home, because they themselves want to be.

So I would ask your particular Manager[and I dont fancy your chances] why the meetings have to be at the office.

The reason may merely be, because he wants them to be.
No idea then, if that is a good enough reason, Health and Safety wise.

You may be able to find a higher up Manager who overrules your Manager, iyswim.

@saraclara I disagree with you on this. They may well have been very successful. Perhaps the manager wants to be in the office because of some aspect of wfh not being to his or her liking. They could be in a minority of one, and in any case, it's not just about being in the office together, it's about the journey too.

I don’t see the issue here. Time for everything to go back to normal. It was never going to last.

On mumsnet there are so many posts about wanting to get back to normal, shops open, holidays, in general life getting back to what it was. There was a post I read earlier and the op was getting slated as she was moaning about people breaking rules. Now on the other hand we have this, workers still wanting to stay at home and work? Surely if people want to get back to normal, work should be a priority?

@Millymomooo

On mumsnet there are so many posts about wanting to get back to normal, shops open, holidays, in general life getting back to what it was. There was a post I read earlier and the op was getting slated as she was moaning about people breaking rules. Now on the other hand we have this, workers still wanting to stay at home and work? Surely if people want to get back to normal, work should be a priority?

Nooo that’s not how it works

People want to go back to normal whilst keeping the good bits of lockdown such as wfh (and I suspect being more choosy of who they see etc...).

[quote CuthbertDibbleandGrubb]@saraclara I disagree with you on this. They may well have been very successful. Perhaps the manager wants to be in the office because of some aspect of wfh not being to his or her liking. They could be in a minority of one, and in any case, it's not just about being in the office together, it's about the journey too.[/quote]
Or it might be that the manager can see issues or potential issues that the OP can’t see.
Because they are the manager.

Or theyve been told from higher up that it needs to happen.

Or wfh isn’t working as well as the OP thinks.

Or she. Has strong preconceived ideas on how rubbish said meetings are etc.

Basically a lot of people who've been WFH have gained a false sense of being in control of their working lives. Understandably they like that element of it, and who wouldn't?

But basically you're an employee and your boss can run things as they see fit. Before Covid it wouldn't occur to people to question that, but the freedom they feel they've had over the last year, has made
what used to be normal suddenly seem unreasonable to them.

God, I'd love to have a big face to face meeting at work! We're stuck at home until at least September...

ParadiseIsland
I see that makes sense now. I did wonder lol thank you

From what I’ve seen on other threads, it really seems that a lot of people who wfh are really enjoying the extra benefits they personally get from doing so. Understandably, they don’t want to return to commuting. It also seems they will seek any excuse not to return to work.

It would be interesting to know if these people who are so keen to avoid returning to their offices have decided to keep their children at home as well or whether they have decided that schools are ok, workplace not

@saraclara

Basically a lot of people who've been WFH have gained a false sense of being in control of their working lives. Understandably they like that element of it, and who wouldn't?

But basically you're an employee and your boss can run things as they see fit. Before Covid it wouldn't occur to people to question that, but the freedom they feel they've had over the last year, has made
what used to be normal suddenly seem unreasonable to them.

I completely agree with this... OP, what do you think would be reasonable? Are you very high risk? What about those of us that have been working in a keyworker role throughout? We haven't been protected.... what if all the supermarket workers said "No I'm not working through this?" You can't pick and choose how you work, lockdown is lifting, time to get back to reality I'm afraid 🤷🏼‍♀️

The guidance is still to work from home if you can. It has not changed. As per the updated government website on Covid 19.

@CateTown

I have daily meetings with 32 other people. No masks, very little social distancing. I’m a teacher!

Oh god will teachers never stop going on ...

Teachers can't work effectively remotely. Those workers who can have done so to keep infections down. Why is it so hard for clever teachers to understand?

I think you'll find the fact that my current year 11 class having massively improved from their starting points when they were at the beginning of year 10 is an example of me doing my job from a distance.

I taught them from March to July 2020 fully remotely, September to December 2020 blended (most had to isolate at least twice and at one point the whole group were at home for the same two weeks, while I taught over my laptop, and I myself had to isolate and teach from home while a member of office staff supervised the class), January to March 2020 fully remotely. They'd be in no position to sit 'exams' in class from next Monday if my work was ineffective.

The sheer disruption caused when fully 'open' was ridiculous and more was genuinely achieved when everyone was remote at once, as we haven't managed a full week of everyone present face to face for over a year.