Illegal school admission policy aid by LEA

[REDHEN12]

Nightmare..... before I start everything say I say is the truth and I have documentary evidence to prove it. Here we go. Time for the move up to secondary school. Family thinking of moving out of the area but not sure due to circumstances. So completed form SA3 with school choices in order of preference and sent that to LEA and waited. My boy has SEN. Finally received a letter from the LEA addressed only to me with decision notice regarding my three choices. All were refused. So decided not to move out of the area ie down south. Two days later from the decision notice received a letter from the academy school which was our third choice stating that they had received a copy letter from the LEA acknowledging that we didn’t get a place at their school and we could appeal through the schools independent panel and so we did. Day one was in the hall with all parents appealing. We new we were up against it straight away when the headmaster stood up and stated if your child has Sen needs you needn’t think your coming here as we don’t have sufficient Sen resources. Eventually we got to the day of our own personal hearing. Going into the meeting guided by the clerk to the independent panel she asked if we were no longer moving down south. This struck a cord with my wife as we had not told anybody other than the LEA in our choices of school. So the appeal meeting went ahead. We put our case according to the schools admission policy and referred to our child’s SEN needs where again the head suggested we go to another school that could cater for SEN needs. I also noticed that the headmaster had a copy of our form SA3 which fool me I didn’t pick up on. Appeal meeting over we went home and waited. Later advised we didn’t get a place under the pretext of the schools appeals policy. We stewed on this for a while and then decided to do a subject access request both to the academy we appealed to and my sons junior school before. The academy disclosed a copy of the confidential letter addressed only to me at my home address with the decision notice detailing our school preference in order of preference. The headmaster at public meetings had previously stated that if you don’t put us down as first choice you won’t get in. So thenLEA had processed confidential data which had been passed through the school to the headmaster and then the independent clerk informed of the contents hence how she new we were thinking of moving down south. Next and the cherry on the cake. The junior school also disclosed a bundle of documents which we would not have otherwise seen. The Senco officer at the junior school had rung the admissions officer at the academy trying to get reconsideration for my son. The conversation she Senco officer made a note of and put in the comms file for the child. She also sent her note by email to the local authority and her Head. Neither responded. In her notes she records how the schools admissions officer stated ! at great length that the real reason he did not get a place was that he was just too late and that he had put us down as third choice. All this means that the LEA supported an illegal admission policy contravene data protection laws as did the school and by the schools admissions officers operated a covert admissions policy. We as parents are horrified and upset. Had it not been for the subject access we would not have got to the truth. Question is has this been used against other children as well and what do we do now? P.s. yes we did subject access requests to the independent panel clerk for the minutes of day one and the minutes of our hearing and we were duly refused copies of. In the politeness of ways almost ... the school admissions officer told us where to go! Can anybody help?

A lot of them do this. They just don't care. They fill the places, then even if you show in all the appeal that you should have had a place it's tough shit as even though you're right there's no way they're pulling a place off another child and they won't increase intake for another class in that year.

6 years ago and it's still the same.
I say this kindly, let it go and find another school. We went through so much to show they'd done wrong and it still didn't achieve anything other than stress.

There are a couple of posters that can really help you. Look on the secondary schools section - perhaps ask MNHQ to move your thread there as you need specialist advice.

Objectively do you want your DC at a school that doesn't want them?

Exhaust the the complaints procedure for school and LEA then complain to the information commissioner's office. Good luck.

Regardless of what school your child ends up at, your family's personal information has not been handled in line with your rights.

Ask for your post to be moved to the secondary education board. There are some excellent posters there who have always been incredibly generous with their help re admissions policies such as @admission and @prh47bridge

@ChonkyChook

A lot of them do this. They just don't care. They fill the places, then even if you show in all the appeal that you should have had a place it's tough shit as even though you're right there's no way they're pulling a place off another child and they won't increase intake for another class in that year.

6 years ago and it's still the same.
I say this kindly, let it go and find another school. We went through so much to show they'd done wrong and it still didn't achieve anything other than stress.

Completely wrong. If you win an appeal they do not take a place away from another child. Your child is admitted in addition to those already in the school. I have no idea about your appeal but I can assure you that is not why you lost. Either you failed to convince the appeal panel that a mistake had been made, or the school was so full that it couldn't possibly handle another pupil, or the mistake affected a more appellants than the school could handle and others made a stronger case than you.

Ok, lets unpick this.

It is not illegal for the LA to share your application form with schools. It is poor practise, but it is not a breach of either the Admissions Code or data protection. Indeed, the application form is often included in the bundle of papers sent to the appeal panel, so it is possible it was shared with the school for this purpose after decision letters went out.

The critical point in what was noted by the SENCO (which may, of course, not be an entirely accurate account of the conversation) would appear to be that you were late, if that is correct. If you applied after the deadline your application would only be considered after all the on-time applicants. Unless the school was under-subscribed, you would not get a place. It is also possible the admissions officer commented that you named the school as third choice and the SENCO, not understanding the admissions process (many don't), wrongly assumed that was part of the reason you didn't get a place.

It is extremely unlikely that the LA is colluding with the school to allow them to operate a "first preference first" policy. It would be very obvious to the LA if this was happening when the school's ranked list of applicants came back.

It is not uncommon for head teachers to state publicly that applicants won't get a place unless they name the school as first choice. Many don't understand the admissions process. Some deliberately mislead parents in order to get more naming their school as first choice.

It isn't entirely clear how or why you informed the LA that you were thinking of moving south. If this was on your application form, the school would have found out when it was shared with them.

The fact you decided not to move when you didn't get offered a place at any of your preferred schools suggests that the schools were in the area to which you intended to move (which is also a likely reason for you missing out on places). If that is the case, it is not unreasonable for the school to infer that the fact you applied meant you intended to move. That would not involve the LA sharing this information with the school at all.

If the academy is actually operating a first preference first policy they are clearly in breach of the Admissions Code. However, I'm afraid the information you have disclosed falls a long way short of proving that.

If you want to pursue this, you will need to refer it to the ESFA. They can get the clerk's notes from the appeal. The clerk was quite right not to share them with you, by the way. That would have been a breach of GDPR as it would have told you what individual panel members said about your case.

@RandomMess

Objectively do you want your DC at a school that doesn't want them?

This

Indeed, the application form is often included in the bundle of papers sent to the appeal panel

Just to add that, in my view, the application form should not be included in the bundle of papers sent to the appeal panel as it risks suspicions of them being influenced by information they should not take into account. The same is true of sending the full application form to schools.

You talk about the appeal failing "under the pretext of the school's appeal policy". That doesn't make sense. The school should not have an appeals policy. The Admission Appeals Code sets out the rules as to the basis on which an appeal can succeed.

You say you set out your case according to the school's admission policy. That suggests you didn't understand the appeal process and therefore did not make an appropriate case. An appeal is not about how well your child fits the admission policy. It is about whether the disadvantage to your child from not being admitted outweighs the problems the school will face from having to admit another child.

I can’t believe what you have written. Are you telling me minutes taken in a public meeting can’t be disclosed and same for minutes in our own meeting with us present. Not convinced at all about your advice to others

Let’s get this right. What you don’t know you have made up. And you think the covert preference scheme is legal. And you think it’s ok for a personal letter to be sent to someone else as well.

Just wow @REDHEN12. Someone with experience and knowledge takes time to read through your OP which is actually quite difficult to read and which seems a bit incomplete, then tries to make sense of it by filling in some gaps with sensible assumptions, and then give you good advice and this is how you thank them. I'm speechless. 🤷‍♀️

I never said we won our appeal @prh47bridge. I said we went through every process, had the LA admit they'd done wrong but they COULDN'T take a place from another child and refused to up the intake. We got an apology and a place at a failing school.

@ChonkyChook

I never said we won our appeal *@prh47bridge*. I said we went through every process, had the LA admit they'd done wrong but they COULDN'T take a place from another child and refused to up the intake. We got an apology and a place at a failing school.

Prh47bridge didnt say you won your appeal,

If you win an appeal they do not take a place away from another child.

I'm just confused why my saying we didn't win and if we did they said they wouldn't give him a place or increase intake was corrected with "Completely wrong. If you win an appeal they do not take a place away from another child." I never said that.

We got told the wrong decision was made but tough, spaces are allocated, no intake increase will happen. We got an apology but that's it. Sorry if I'm muddled up but it was an awful time and the failing School was terrible. We were treated so badly, and even when they admitted they'd done wrong we gained nothing.

I am just a parent, no special expertise, but this is my understanding.

On the matter of preferences, this relates to the sequence in which the LA software processes the applications. Where the LA handles the admissions process for the school, my understanding is that the the model is run initially at first preference level, then for those pupils still without a place the software runs through again at second preference level, then at third preference, then fourth. Within that, each run through also considers whether in catchment, sibling, distance etc.

If a school is named as first preference by many more people than it has places , it is likely to fill up on the first preference run. I too have heard headteachers say 'if you don't put us first, you won't get in' and I think what they really mean is 'we fill up on the first preference round and there aren't likely to be vacant places when the second, third or fourth preferences are considered'. It was a matter of pride for a local head to state at open evenings that you had to put their school as first preference or you wouldn't get in......in one sense it's practical advice if you want to maximise your chances by being considered in the first run. But it's also a form of boasting - in a competitive market (schools are a business)q, it is a matter of pride for the school to say how many people put them as first preference and keeps up the hype around the school.

If the school does it's own admissions (this can be all or part of the process), I think they get sent the application forms or information in an electronic file by the LA.
The school considers against their own criteria and sends a ranking list back to the LA which the LA incorporates back into their software. Are you saying this is where the school saw the preference level and that they automatically discounted anyone who had not put the school first?

@Mumski45

Just wow *@REDHEN12*. Someone with experience and knowledge takes time to read through your OP which is actually quite difficult to read and which seems a bit incomplete, then tries to make sense of it by filling in some gaps with sensible assumptions, and then give you good advice and this is how you thank them. I'm speechless. 🤷‍♀️

This!

@Mumski45

Just wow *@REDHEN12*. Someone with experience and knowledge takes time to read through your OP which is actually quite difficult to read and which seems a bit incomplete, then tries to make sense of it by filling in some gaps with sensible assumptions, and then give you good advice and this is how you thank them. I'm speechless. 🤷‍♀️

@ChonkyChook *@REDHEN12 agree 100% with @Mumski45* - what a response...

@REDHEN12

I can’t believe what you have written. Are you telling me minutes taken in a public meeting can’t be disclosed and same for minutes in our own meeting with us present. Not convinced at all about your advice to others

Blimey

Monstrous ingratitude right there

@NeedSomeInfoAgain that's not correct I'm glad to say.

A school may indeed fill up from first preferences, but only if those are also first in terms of admission criteria.

I live very very close to a secondary which allocates on distance (as many do). If I put that school third on my form, and then put two. dry far away desirable schools first and second, I am unlikely to get those schools (I live far away and others live nearer). This means I jump to the top of the list for my third pref school (I live 100m away). I leapfrog people from five miles away, even if they put it first pref. That's unless, by some chance, I get my faraway first preference.

Does that make sense? It's a lot fairer than the system you suggest, and also is why people are so often advised to put down their local school, even if they don't love it, as a safe bet on their form.

Agree with others btw, unbelievable response to @prh47bridge with their response trying to clarify a confusing op. When was this btw @REDHEN12? Surely appeals this year cannot have been heard?

OP. prh47bridge gives lots of his time every year on MN to help people through the appeals process. If you engage politely and clarify the situation you will get good advice (even if it isn't what you want to hear).

You certainly need to clarify:

• did you apply on time by the deadline
• did you apply to schools in your current local area, or the area you hoped to move to
• does your child have an EHCP

This must be last year, allocation was only disclosed on the 1st in England?

@Mumski45

Just wow *@REDHEN12*. Someone with experience and knowledge takes time to read through your OP which is actually quite difficult to read and which seems a bit incomplete, then tries to make sense of it by filling in some gaps with sensible assumptions, and then give you good advice and this is how you thank them. I'm speechless. 🤷‍♀️

Agree. And if this is how you speak to someone trying to help you here, it makes me wonder what you might have said at the appeal.

Clearly you want to help your DC and ultimately their needs have to come first. But that means sometimes reflecting on how our own actions might be helping or hindering them.

@NeedSomeInfoAgain that's not how the LEA allocate places at all. The applications made are all ranked against the admission criteria for each school whether they are 1st 2nd ...or last preference to determine who fits the criteria best and to come up with a ranked list for each school. A child is then offered a place at the highest place school for which they qualified. Eg if they qualify for all preferences then they will get the first. If not but they did qualify for second then they will get that one etc down the list. If a school does not fill on the first "round" of allocations then it will take the next pupils on the ranked list and so on.

What schools often say these days is that if you don't put them first you won't be guaranteed a place even if you fit the criteria. Technically this is correct because if you qualify for a school higher up your list then you won't be offered a place at your 2nd, 3red etc choice as you will be offered the first choice. This statement can often be misinterpreted as you 'must' put them first if you want to be considered which is different entirely.