'Nurses are well paid for the job'

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

An MP said this today, in responce to the debate surrounding the 1% pay rise. Im a nurse, and I know what I think (that the pay is ok, not terrible but not fantastic), im really interested to know what others think?

@Iggly the nurses I know (5) are happy with their pay

@FuckyouBrennan

For those that say a nurse deals with a lot, they knew this would be the case when they decided to be a nurse.

They knew this would be the case but this still doesn't justify them being underpaid!

As a band 5 community nurse with over 10 years experience I am ‘top of band’ my gross salary is £30615 sounds good till we start the deductions £84 student loan a month, £240 to pension (set at 9.3% which we can’t amend) £10 per month to the NMC professional body and £10 per month to the union means I take home £1765 a month.

I attend to patients in their own home, have to make my own clinical decisions and plan care around them.
I am responsible for assessing their needs and abilities to look after themselves.
If I wished to increase my wage I would have to move into management or specialise my annual wage would be increased by £700 over the year for the first 3 years before I would then earn an extra £2000 a year.
In my case I would have 20 years experience to reach £37000.

It’s worth remembering that nursing pensions are not non contributory pensions. They pay a substantial amount into them too. I’m a teacher so not the same field but similar situation. I pay 9.7% into my pension each month. It is a lot but I am grateful for the benefit it’ll hopefully give me when I retire.

@Iggly or ask on a forum where there are clearly nurses?

Very few nurses will earn £24k, most will earn quite a bit more.

To earn that amount, they'll have to be a new graduate, outside London with no shift allowances. So not your typical hospital nurse.

Add in shift allowances, pay progression and high cost area premiums where relevant and your typical nurse with a few years experience will probably earn £35-40k on band 5. Or more for band 6/7.

Which is quite a bit above average outside London, as it should be for a skilled graduate professional job and will allow a good standard of living, buy a family home etc, especially if they have a working partner.

Obviously the inexperienced nurse in London will struggle and the HCA payments don't fully cover the extra cost of living in the capital. Maybe there should be a scheme that gives nurses and other low paid essential workers access to subsidised secure rental accommodation near to where they work?

Having said that, the proposed 1% pay increase is an insult, especially when the 2.1% was previously mooted, and the significant vacancy rate, which I think is around 10-11% does mean that there's a problem with pay and/or conditions being insufficient for the job.

[quote MaMaD1990]@Iggly or ask on a forum where there are clearly nurses? [/quote]
What’s your point exactly?

People are saying what’s enough, I’m saying ask nurses? And actually, I should be clearer, ask nurses collectively - I.e. through their umbrella bodies and unions, who will have an overview of what nurses think and need.

@BarbaraofSeville

Very few nurses will earn £24k, most will earn quite a bit more.

To earn that amount, they'll have to be a new graduate, outside London with no shift allowances. So not your typical hospital nurse.

Add in shift allowances, pay progression and high cost area premiums where relevant and your typical nurse with a few years experience will probably earn £35-40k on band 5. Or more for band 6/7.

Which is quite a bit above average outside London, as it should be for a skilled graduate professional job and will allow a good standard of living, buy a family home etc, especially if they have a working partner.

Obviously the inexperienced nurse in London will struggle and the HCA payments don't fully cover the extra cost of living in the capital. Maybe there should be a scheme that gives nurses and other low paid essential workers access to subsidised secure rental accommodation near to where they work?

Having said that, the proposed 1% pay increase is an insult, especially when the 2.1% was previously mooted, and the significant vacancy rate, which I think is around 10-11% does mean that there's a problem with pay and/or conditions being insufficient for the job.

Or pay nurses more. Things like subsidised accommodation etc - all keep wages low. Same with in work benefits, when the real solution is to increase wages.

Should be paid more without a doubt. My sister is a nurse. We both went to university. I have earned so much more in my private sector role (not a medical field) but she has definitely had to work harder. Seems so unfair. There is a school of thought that you don't go into nursing for the money and this is partly true I suppose but I still think the pay is woefully low relative to qualifications and hard work required.

But everyone pays for pensions and student loans don't they? And tax and NI. Complaining about the deductions that everyone pays doesn't really help your cause TBH.

Definitely it great once they pay registration fees,pension,national insuranc,tax and student loan repayment. I know nurses coming out with under 1200 per month following all that...I also know people with no qualifications making more than that.

Sorry I meant isn't great

Either pay them more or recruit more staff so they aren’t overworked. Or both.
Goes for all working in hospitals/care homes/health.
It’s not a race to the bottom.

I don’t mention tax and insurance as everyone pays them. The student loan is relevant as you have to attend university to become a nurse so you have to make that payment and I would not be paying almost 10% in a pension in the private sector I would have a choice of how much I would want to pay. We have to pay that or not have a pension.
The NMC require payment of £120 per year and us to prove we are capable placing requests such as taking further education reflecting on our practice. Most of which had to be done in our own time.

I know nurses coming out with under 1200 per month following all that

Not full time qualified nurses you don't. Even on the starting £24k salary and a 10% pension contribution, the take home pay is around £1500 pm. And almost no full time hospital nurses will earn that little due to shift allowances, progression payments and high cost area payments.

Yes, I think nurses deserve a pay rise, and yes, I think there's obviously something wrong with pay and conditions for the vacancy rate to be as high as it is and yes, the whole COVID shitshow will have impacted nurses disproportionately.

But lets stick to the facts shall we?

I think nurses get paid ok. I think there are some people in the nhs that do jobs that we don’t really need that get paid a fortune. I’m thinking of managers etc. I think the wealth could be distributed a bit better.

If we are going to pay nurses more, will we pay carers more? These crap pay jobs don’t exactly attract people that will be dedicated and looking for a long career in care. We should make care sector more attractive. After all more and more of us need it as we are an ageing population.

And teaching assistants whilst I’m at it. They get paid peanuts. If we pay nurses more we should sort school pay out too.

It is a job I would love to do. But it doesn’t pay enough.

Shift allowances for a band 5 are time+33% usually past 8pm and before 8am and a Saturday, and time+66% for Sunday’s and bank holidays.
If you work between 8-8 mon to fri you won’t get any extras.

I know many factory workers who get double pay for Sunday’s.

@Iggly my point is that I can ask whatever I like. Not sure why you've become so offended by a question and decided to have a childish dig. Maybe go back to bed for an hour and cheer up a bit?

There’s been talk of salary progression being ‘good’ on here. Do people realise that for the Band 6+ roles you need to have an MSc and/or a decade plus of experience in the field, in the vast majority of cases? These jobs aren’t just falling into people’s laps. As a nurse you commit to lifelong learning, you are expected to demonstrate that you have up to date knowledge (rightly so) but this comes with a time and academic commitment alongside the working hours. As other posters have said, modern nurses are responsible for assessments and care planning, the job is a lot more technical than it ever was and those in higher bands have bigger responsibilities such as prescribing, line management, staffing. Nurses are much more autonomous practitioners than they used to be, gone are the days of the ‘Doctors’ handmaiden’.

The salary is not unreasonable but it is far from generous. There are many, many jobs out there with faster pay progression and less responsibility and often fewer academic requirements to both enter and to progress.

Plenty of hospital nurses get no shift allowances. I work in a very specialised outpatients dept, where specialist knowledge and training is essential. I had a break in practice for family commitments, and did a back to nursing course. I then had to start at the beginning of the pay scale again, with over 20years experience and two post graduate qualifications, one of which is the most relevant for my job. After 4 years back in the job, I get paid £14.02 an hour. I know cleaning ladies and decorators who get paid more. I am regularly in charge of the department I work in, and of nurses less qualified and experienced than me, who are paid more than me. I do resent it. But I also love my job and the team I work with.

@broodyas they’re not underpaid

And don’t forget practice nurses in GP surgeries, they aren’t on Agenda for Change banding and are employed directly by the GP partners. Their salary is set by the GP partners, some use AfC as a guide and pay about the same, some pay a little higher but most pay less because nurses are getting the ‘convenience of office hours’ , totally ignoring that practice nursing is a specialist nursing skill and requires additional training and experience. Same for those in the private sector but obviously it is not possible for the gov to set a figure for those sectors.

Nursing as a career can be emotionally rewarding and academically challenging but it is not financially lucrative, you can earn more for doing less.

I think enough would be keeping in line with inflation. I know that equals 12% (roughly) now which is an unreasonable ask. I do think there should be a plan put in place to 'catch up', perhaps over a number of years.

It's pretty much a job for life though isn't it? And that's the trade off, a slightly lower base salary (albeit the shift allowances, overtime and bank work for many will increase that salary to a decent, or good level).

There are few if any other professions where the same level of job security exists. In most private sector professional roles there is always the risk of redundancy - in my field (insurance/law) I have seen redundancies happen every few years; last year due to Covid, previously in 2017, 2015, 2012, and so on. Not to mention all the colleagues who have taken VR or early retirement too.