'Nurses are well paid for the job'

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

An MP said this today, in responce to the debate surrounding the 1% pay rise. Im a nurse, and I know what I think (that the pay is ok, not terrible but not fantastic), im really interested to know what others think?

@mendandmakedo

They got rid of the diploma years ago. I don't think there will be any registered nurses now don't have a degree.

I don't have one. Funding to do one keeps being cut.

I have a cleaner and pay her £10 an hour.

Lol I get paid £15/hr I think. Top band 5 with 21 years experience in ICU, but overall qualified 30 years. Was a band 6 for 5 years but a major illness in family plus a 6 week old baby forced me to drop a grade.
Most nurses stay at band 5 apart from maybe in the London/se area where progression seems amazingly quick. We didn’t have a band 6 vacancy for almost 9 years so up here the situation is very different.
The job is very different from 20 or 30 years ago, we have a lot of autonomy to change vent settings for example, we often alert the docs to things that junior medical staff don’t notice.
There seems to be a bit of an obsession with nurses on mumsnet, 3rd thread in less than 10 days debating the worth of nurses...

@TheKeatingFive

What would a nurse with 20 years experience be on? Average?

If they stayed a band 5, so no desire to specialise or Lean towards management they’d be on what you reach at 7 years, which is the top of band 5 so £30,615.

What are the contracted hours for the salary and typical shift patterns?

I do think nursing is poorly paid for the type of work (especially hospital nursing in acute wards)

I know of a few nurses who do 3 shifts a week (12 hours each) which obviously leaves 4 days off. A couple of these regularly do ‘bank’ overtime which tops up their salary. Is this commonplace?

I think nurses need a top up pay over other non nursing grades, in the same way the RAF pays flying pay to pilots. Many nurses don't want to progress into management, they just want to nurse. Having them cap after 7 years service isn't right, especially with their expertise and experience. The top ups should also vary according to additional qualifications and specialties, like someone else said, an ICU nurse has a lot more pressure and responsibility than an outpatient nurse (as was seen when trying to 'upskill' non ICU nurses for ICU work). Having this system would reward for the extra stress and professional training that nurses to compared to band 5 admin. It would need to probably include some other healthcare practitioners like physiology.

I think there pay is good and the pay rise is better than nothing

I'm top of band 7 on ICU, paid £43k pro-rata.
Sounds pretty good, but I choose to work part-time for a work-life balance. It sucks the life-blood out of you.

Unlike other posters experience, I am fully clinical in ICU for my 12.5 hour shifts. Yet also line manage a team; project lead for various areas; deal with incidents/investigations, and write the off-duty.

What isn't obvious to non-nurses is quite how much work happens unpaid, in our own time. For the love of the job or not wanting to let your staff down.

I regularly consider dropping a grade for less responsibility. It wouldn't reduce my pay much.

With the threat of a 1% pay rise on the back of the last year, I am seriously considering leaving. I'll work purely clinically agency shifts, it will increase my pay considerably and end up costing the NHS far far more.

(Fwiw, I do not support the RCN's call for a 12.5% pay rise - nor do any of my colleagues. Totally inappropriate in this economic situation). RCN does not speak for us all, it's a useless union as far as I am concerned.

@mendandmakedo

They got rid of the diploma years ago. I don't think there will be any registered nurses now don't have a degree.

It was 2011. My SIL was in the last cohort to do the diploma. There are plenty of nurses aged mid-thirties and up who took the same route.

She has said that there is a lot of pressure to do the course to convert to a degree. It comes up at every appraisal and she has missed out on band 6 promotions at least in part because of it.

Depends on personality, but I think it is a v stressful job, compounded with the understaffing, difficulty managing rotas if both partners work in healthcare. High vacancies despite many registering for training suggests high drop out post qualification (probably because working conditions so stressful - you don’t count on your employer being regularly understaffed)

I reckon many would rather their department was well staffed and they had a supportive team than necessarily a pay rise. 1% is a bit of a kick in the teeth though - i wonder what mp pay rise will be.

Personally, the 1% pay rise is a massive slap in the face, but the recommended 12.5% increase was laughable. The wages aren't awful, but could be better but there is, as I understand, very good pensions and benefits too. The car parking charges for nurses should be permanently abolished which I think could help ease the sting in wages.

I'm top of band 7 on ICU, paid £43k pro-rata.
Sounds pretty good

To me, that doesn't sound enough for the importance of the job.

My nurse friend is band 7 so on something like £39-45k I think? She works 3 long days which she says is brilliant for childcare.

Of course there are fewer positions available in the top bands and most nurses are bands 5 and 6, is that not how basically all roles are structured? Most of the staff in junior or middling positions and fewer senior managers/CEOs and the like?

£24k as a graduate seems totally normal.

• all jobs are structured

I think medical professionals including nurses should be more highly valued than they are now.

We turn a blind eye to other professions who, in my view, are of les value to society, but happily trash talk nurses, teachers etc on a daily basis.

Nurses deserve decent pay and conditions. 1% is a piss take.

To those who say it doesn't seem enough, what would be enough? Genuine question! I've asked this to people in RL and they have no idea what the amount should be, just that it should be higher.

Hell yes @Namenic. Give me an extra nurse per shift and I will happily take a pay cut! The patients would get the care and therapy we want to be able to give, staff and patient satisfaction would improve

Ransoms on mumsnet debating the ‘worth’ of nurses doesn’t matter an iota. If nurses go on strike the government will bow to their demands on the first day. I hope nurses start to use their bargaining power.

It’s a complex, responsible professional job. Comparing it to shop staff is ridiculous.

You don’t get constant debates on mumsnet about the pay of male dominated public sector jobs like the police, civil service. It’s always nurses and teachers. A sad example of the sexism in society and the conditioning of women to collude in the devaluation of their own work and worth.

@MaMaD1990

To those who say it doesn't seem enough, what would be enough? Genuine question! I've asked this to people in RL and they have no idea what the amount should be, just that it should be higher.

I would say if you took the 2010 salary and added 11 years pay rises at decent levels, that'd be about what it should be!

The point is - they got a better salary in 2010, in real terms.

I think the issue is that nurses are invaluable and that this pandemic has highlighted that society needs to pay / value certain professions more. Shop workers, nurses, teachers, doctors, cleaners/refuse workers, have all been highlighted as essential and without them we can’t function. Yet we pay some people much much more. We need to be more socialist and recognise everyone’s worth.

@Docketpuo

Hell yes *@Namenic*. Give me an extra nurse per shift and I will happily take a pay cut! The patients would get the care and therapy we want to be able to give, staff and patient satisfaction would improve

Please don't say this - Britain deserves to have enough properly paid nurses, not trade one off against the other.

Don't swallow the 'there's not enough money' narrative. £20bn on test and trace - and today's report says no evidence it actually reduced covid rates. Plenty of evidence nurses reduced death rates.

I don't work in health or nursing, I just value their work in society.

For London the salary is extremely low. It's £700 to rent a room in a shared house here!

i dont think the pay is too bad, however the job is extremely responsible so of course the pay should be more

I don't think they're underpaid compared to other public sector roles like teachers or social workers.

But I do think pay across our society is quite oddly balanced and I think it's crazy how much you can earn for office roles compared to front line roles. I work in London, used to be in the City and a lot of those jobs were much easier compared to those of front line public sector workers in my view. Yet they often paid at least double if not more.

@MaMaD1990

To those who say it doesn't seem enough, what would be enough? Genuine question! I've asked this to people in RL and they have no idea what the amount should be, just that it should be higher.

Ask the nurses?