Who do you consider to be a HCP?

[Oldenpeculiar]

As in health care professional?

Do you consider allied jobs such as a health care assistant on a ward a HCP? Or care assistants in the community or care homes to be HCPs?

I'm doing some training as a care worker and it's surprised me that I am considered by some, to be a HCP. I don't think this is the general perception of care workers is it?

Although the course I'm doing is nvq level 5 (management) having completed 3, and that required a lot of knowledge, practical skills and evidence to pass. Looking at 5 there's a lot more. A really good thing.

I don't think generally, people realise how much in depth training into care and general health, good practice and legislation etc is covered in the training offered to care assistants, and thus don't consider them a professional. Though a higher level of training can command a better hourly rate, it often doesn't. I'm still on nmw despite having my 3.
I quite often hear how care is unskilled, and not a profession, to justify low pay and poor working conditions, however with the training being improved all the time, surely it should start to be considered as a profession?
It's quite demoralising to hear despite the training you've done, the skills you've learned, you're unskilled and bottom of the heap - and I don't think that reflects well on societies view towards those we look after either.
I'd welcome some regulation of care workers, like a pin, although the flip side to all this is care costing more, which affects everyone.
What do you think?

A healthcare Professional is when you are regulated by a professional body ie a nurse is regulated by the nursery and midwifery council.

A carer would be considered support staff in healthcare as ultimately you don't have clinical accountability /responsibility for that patient - someone else does.

Rosie I'm a senior carer on nights in a residential home, no nurses so responsible for all residents, in my care.

I don’t consider carers to be HCP. I consider doctors, nurses, midwives etc as a HCP.

They don't have nursing needs if they are residential? If it was a nursing home you would need a nurse on duty.

Care providers are regulated by the CQC, we have guidelines and legislation to follow.
I also work in a residential home and no nursing staff, if for instance I hoist someone incorrectly, I'm accountable for that.

@ChancesWhatChances yes because doctors are registered with the general medical council, nurses and midwives are registered with the NMC. Nurses pay each year to keep their PIN number something which carers don't have to do , nurses have to prove they are fit to practise and revalidate also.

Im a nurse and I absolutely consider HCAs to be HCPs. They are very valued and relied upon. They absolutely should be regulated and its shocking that they're not.

Social carers im not so sure about, but then ive never worked with them so I dont know what the remit of care is.

@Oldenpeculiar yes morally you are accountable but you wouldn't be struck off the nursing register and not allowed to practise .

I do think that carers should be classed as healthcare professionals though. You are clinically assessing patients all the time . A bed bath isn't just a wash, you will be checking skin integrity, signs of dehydration, checking their general wellbeing .

I consider a HCP to be someone who is required to be registered on a professional register. Surely that is logical? This is why there is legislation around what people are allowed to call themselves. For example HCAs cannot legally call themselves nurses, doulas cannot call themselves midwives.

@rosied03

I could be sacked, I could be prosecuted, so could the home or registered manager. Having a prosecution like that would show on a dbs, therefore stopping you working in care. Although people do slip through the net, not get prosecuted etc and there's nothing really barring getting a job elsewhere if you can provide 2 references and a clean dbs, and that's where regulation and a register would be a real advantage. As you say, we're assessing people all the time, especially in a setting where you don't work under a nurse, I can fail in my duty of care by act or omission, and be accountable for that, more so due to my level of training, than someone without it. So I am accountable.

@Endofthelinefinally
It's not that I want to call myself a nurse, I'm not, I'm a care assistant. But the scope of care assistants, and training is far wider than washing bottoms and making cups of tea. The expectations are much higher than that. I'd really welcome a register for care assistants.

[quote Oldenpeculiar]@rosied03

I could be sacked, I could be prosecuted, so could the home or registered manager. Having a prosecution like that would show on a dbs, therefore stopping you working in care. Although people do slip through the net, not get prosecuted etc and there's nothing really barring getting a job elsewhere if you can provide 2 references and a clean dbs, and that's where regulation and a register would be a real advantage. As you say, we're assessing people all the time, especially in a setting where you don't work under a nurse, I can fail in my duty of care by act or omission, and be accountable for that, more so due to my level of training, than someone without it. So I am accountable.

@Endofthelinefinally
It's not that I want to call myself a nurse, I'm not, I'm a care assistant. But the scope of care assistants, and training is far wider than washing bottoms and making cups of tea. The expectations are much higher than that. I'd really welcome a register for care assistants.[/quote]
It has nothing to with the job description or responsibility. Just whether or not a person maintains their registration on a professional register and fulfills the requirements to remain on the register.
I too would welcome more professional registers, but I imagine that for all the people who want to be on a register, there would be an equal number who don't want to pay the fees, do the training updates and complete the validation. It shouldn't be something that is imposed, there should be consultation and concensus.
I have several qualifications, but am no longer on any registers so I can't call myself a professional, only a retired or former professional.

Would you be happy to pay annual registration fees to relevant professional body?

Also are you happy to be subject to an audit and submit evidence of ongoing CPD

@Endofthelinefinally

I get what you're saying, but surely that just devalues any training that you do? What's the point of doing training to deliver better and more professional care and investing time and effort (and money, I've had to fund some things myself) into that, when you're not recognised for that, or considered to be more employable, command a higher salary etc? Yet are still held accountable in line with your level of training.
It seems like as a care assistant you've still got the responsibility of being a professional with regards to accountability, attending mandatory training, responsibility for people, but with none of the benefits that go with a professional status like increased wage, support and higher employability.
It also to me, shows that society doesn't seem the people we look after of worthy of professional care.

@SnarkyBag

Yes.
Do you expect a professional standard of from a care assistant with training? Within the remit of care? I'm not medically trained, I have touched on areas that are medical, however I'm not a medically trained professional.
I don't want to be called a nurse, I want for care assistants that have completed training, that have expectations of being professional within the care they deliver to be recognised as professional.

But this is a common theme, the assumption that we just want to tread on nurses toes and consider ourselves something we're not. I don't know if you're a nurse or not, but it is a reaction I've come across from nurses.

But working in a “professional manner” with relevant training is a common expectation among many sectors but doesn’t necessarily make the role a “professional” one.

The training and responsibilities you refer to aren’t the same as say a 3 year nursing degree. Doesn’t mean your job isn’t valuable. A TA with NVQ training wouldn’t expect to be called a teaching professional despite the fact they also have responsibilities and expectations of professional behaviour.

And no I’m not a nurse

@SnarkyBag

But working in a “professional manner” with relevant training is a common expectation among many sectors but doesn’t necessarily make the role a “professional” one.

The training and responsibilities you refer to aren’t the same as say a 3 year nursing degree. Doesn’t mean your job isn’t valuable. A TA with NVQ training wouldn’t expect to be called a teaching professional despite the fact they also have responsibilities and expectations of professional behaviour.

And no I’m not a nurse

I would consider a TA with nvq training a proffesional within education, not a teacher, but still a professional in their own right, within education.

A care assistant with nvq training should be considered a proffesional in their own right, not a nurse, but still a proffesional within healthcare.

And I guess a bigger question is why are we expecting people who aren't considered, paid, treated or regarded as professionals, in any sector, to behave in a professional manner?

Either they're a professional and have professional standards expected of them, or they're not.

Surely that's having standards though? If I got a job at McDonald's I wouldn't be classed as a professional ( part of a regulated professional body paying £120 per year ) yet I would still act in a professional manner , maintaining good food hygiene, customer service etc .

@Oldenpeculiar

Surely that's having standards though? If I got a job at McDonald's I wouldn't be classed as a professional ( part of a regulated professional body paying £120 per year ) yet I would still act in a professional manner , maintaining good food hygiene, customer service etc .

Maybe.

The term 'professional manner' may be more akin to 'acceptable standard' than professional, I just don't see how you can expect professional standards from someone you don't consider a professional, a language thing there maybe.

Still though, I think that where care assistants are concerned, the level of responsibility, the level of training and the accountability should be recognised, by a regulatory body.

I notice you mention the cost of registration, again a common theme when this is brought up, I don't think you should have to pay to register if you have put the time and effort in towards the training, but it's a common thing thrown at care assistants that we don't have to do this, No, we don't, but that's because there's no regulatory body to pay my £120 to, not because I haven't done any training, or because I don't want to, because caring for people isn't seen as important enough to be done by professionals. Despite the guidelines and regulations around it. Despite the depth the training goes into, despite having to attend mandatory training sessions.

When I started in care, it wasn't like it is now. God my nvq 2 was very, very simple. The 3 was far more complex and in depth, the 5 more so. There's been a gap in when I've done this training, the training itself has improved dramatically, which is a good thing, and it should be recognised as such.

I would like to see care workers with the qualifications regarded, treated and respected as professionals
I don't know why that's so offensive to some people.

I don't find the concept offensive at all tbh. I do think there is a misunderstanding around the word professional and professional registration.

I consider a HCP to be someone who is required to be registered on a professional register

Social workers are registered by the HCPC in England though and wouldn’t be considered health care professionals.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I consider a HCP to be someone who is required to be registered on a professional register

Social workers are registered by the HCPC in England though and wouldn’t be considered health care professionals.

Actually many would

Yes maybe a misunderstanding, but it's quite frustrating to be expected to take on the responsibility and accountability of being professional, while being told well actually you're not, so don't expect to be treated like one.
Nvq 5 is a registered managers award, so my manager has by that definition professional status, yet when mines complete, because of my job title, rather than my skill set and training (which will be the same) I'm not.
I'll do the same training updates as them, have greater accountability because of the training I've completed but still don't have the right to be considered a professional within healthcare.
If we want to improve care for those that are needing it, then a big first step is recognising that care workers with that level of training are professionals. As it is, it's discouraging to put all the time and effort in, take on the extra responsibility and accountability that comes with the extra knowledge, and still be dismissed as unskilled and not a professional, because I don't pay £120 a year to a regulatory body.