Who do you consider to be a HCP?

[Oldenpeculiar]

As in health care professional?

Do you consider allied jobs such as a health care assistant on a ward a HCP? Or care assistants in the community or care homes to be HCPs?

I'm doing some training as a care worker and it's surprised me that I am considered by some, to be a HCP. I don't think this is the general perception of care workers is it?

Although the course I'm doing is nvq level 5 (management) having completed 3, and that required a lot of knowledge, practical skills and evidence to pass. Looking at 5 there's a lot more. A really good thing.

I don't think generally, people realise how much in depth training into care and general health, good practice and legislation etc is covered in the training offered to care assistants, and thus don't consider them a professional. Though a higher level of training can command a better hourly rate, it often doesn't. I'm still on nmw despite having my 3.
I quite often hear how care is unskilled, and not a profession, to justify low pay and poor working conditions, however with the training being improved all the time, surely it should start to be considered as a profession?
It's quite demoralising to hear despite the training you've done, the skills you've learned, you're unskilled and bottom of the heap - and I don't think that reflects well on societies view towards those we look after either.
I'd welcome some regulation of care workers, like a pin, although the flip side to all this is care costing more, which affects everyone.
What do you think?

@vodkaredbullgirl

Of course in a hospital or nursing home, no HCA don't have to deal with writing a care plan. As a Senior Carer in a residential home, we have to write a residents care plan.

Based on which model of nursing?

@SandlakeRd

To go back to your hoisting example - it would be (or should be!!) a HCP such as an OT that undertakes a M&H assessment and produces a M&H plan - especially on more complex cases. The care assistant would then follow the M&H plan. If you didn’t hoist properly not only would they look at if you had had training and done things correctly but also who had assessed for and recommended the equipment in the first place!

That for me is the difference - a HCP would professionally accountable to a registered body for the decisions they make.

Care staff in care homes regularly write hoisting care plans. They have a nominated moving and handling advisor, many are very well trained.

I really think this comes down to what people's interpretation of what a professional is - whether that is someone with a professional registration or it's someone with a degree of responsibility working in that role.

My husband works in a role where he has a much greater accountability and responsibility than me as an OT, but he's not on a professional register. Is he a professional? Even google dictionary is out on that one.

I do think carers should be registered and paid better.

I don’t know why people assume we don’t write care plans- we do! These should be reviewed and updated regularly. Do people think we get the relevant people in every time to do this? Obviously not- we clinically assess them ourselves

The thing is, it's not subjective is it? It's not a matter of opinion and saying HCAs aren't "professionals" isn't taking a swipe at them - I can see some posters getting defensive about their roles here (I work in a care home too, I get it!) but the definition of a health care professional is clear and enshrined in legislation. Nurse, radiographer, physio, OT etc are all protected titles in a way HCA isn't.

Should caring be a profession? I think so, as long as it's held to the same regulatory standards as other professions and requires the same amount of study. I know we get loads of training but it doesn't compare in any way to the three years of degree level education required to qualify for NMC or HCPC registration. I know because I'm working as a carer and I'm in the final year of an AHP degree.

I think caring should absolutely be better regulated, better regarded and definitely better salaried, for everyone's sakes

Sorry to clarify, I don't mean that every carer should have a degree, that's not realistic at all, just that it should be a career progression option

I'm currently in my second year training to be an operating department practitioner. Before this I was a HCA (3 years) and worked in community care (3 years). Looking back to when I was a carer, that's really what I was, a CARER - I did do my NVQ 3 but it gave me nowhere near the depth of knowledge that I have now. As a carer I was taught the most basic of stuff and had no real knowledge of the human body or illness, but did have good safeguarding, life support, mental capacity, dementia training etc. Our job was to wash, feed, have an awareness of mental health needs and when we had time, give companionship, to our clients. Anything remotely medical was for the people who had put the time in and done the training, and thus bore the actual responsibility and accountability of making decisions on the patients behalf. Of course, you can be a very professional carer (I've seen good and bad ones of those), but it is with the registration to a professional body that comes that responsibility.

I have no doubt you are highly trained but you are not in a regulated health care profession. I am a registered HCP. In my speciality you need a masters to apply for a trainee post, complete two years in supervised practice and then apply for registration in the profession. An NVQ level 5 is commendable but in no way similar

Level 5 NVQ is equivalent to a foundation degree, most HCP have the equivalent a full bachelors degree or higher (as far as I know).

I worked in different care settings before I was a qualified HCP and it was a lot of responsibility and should absolutely be better recognised and regulated. However working as a qualified HCP involves significantly more accountability and responsibility in comparison.

The HCA’s, therapy assistants and carers I work with are amazing but they do not do clinical assessments, what they deliver in relation to health/therapy needs is always over seen/fully informed by a qualified HCP registered with a professional body.

As someone who also worked as an HCA for many years & also has Level 3 NVQ, no I would not consider a HCA to be an HCP.

HCP’s have (generally speaking) completed a career specific degree or degree level training course (thinking of Nurse Associates). They have PIN numbers or registration numbers & pay a fee to their professional bodies to stay registered & practice.

Having said that, HCAs are by no means “unskilled” and it makes me so cross to hear that said. A poor decision from an HCA can cause injury, harm or even death. It is a vital job with a huge responsibility attached & very severely undervalued in society. What other job holds so much responsibility for minimum wage?

@franklyshankly2

I don’t know why people assume we don’t write care plans- we do! These should be reviewed and updated regularly. Do people think we get the relevant people in every time to do this? Obviously not- we clinically assess them ourselves

What models of nursing do you use? What process? How do you measure, standardise and audit your care plans? ‘Writing’ a care plan is not just about filling out a piece of paper. People are getting defensive. And there is no reason do. HCA roles are invaluable. But there are limits to their scope. As there are in Band 5 jobs. And Band 6. Etc etc. Wanting to be labelled as a professional is much less important than improving pay and regulation for HCAs.

If we are going to use hoisting as an example, then there should be an understanding of the distinction between the task of hoisting a patient (which requires training of the technique) and the ability to assess a patient’s ability to transfer and subsequently make a decision and then implement a plan for that patient. The first requires training and experience to do safely, the latter requires a HCP with degree level education, clinical reasoning skills, and registration with an appropriate professional body where there is a mandatory requirement of CPD relating to scope of practice.
I could write an extremely long post on what is required in terms of understanding of anatomy and biomechanics in conjunction with a patient’s musculoskeletal, neurological, cardiovascular, respiratory, vestibular and cognitive functioning, PC, HPC, DH and SH when carrying out an assessment of their ability to transfer before a clinical decision is made to use a hoist.
Further clinical assessment and reasoning skills will then occur during the process to ensure safety of the patient and the practicality of using this technique as a short, medium or long term plan. Further clinical reasoning skills are required to stop using hoists and to trial the use of an alternative technique.
All of the above is with the caveat that the patient has capacity to agree to being hoisted. For patients who lack capacity with regards to the decision for using a hoist to enable transfers requires further clinical education and responsibility with regards to assessment of cognition, understanding of the MCA and best interest decisions.

What can on the surface appear to be a task that requires competence and experience is actually a series of decisions that requires a considerable amount of education, clinical reasoning and accountability. Only health care professionals with a related degree and registration with a professional body (in this case likely the HCPC) could and should do the latter.
The term HCP is there to protect patients by providing a line where education, qualifications and accountability to a professional body are in place before individuals are put in a position where they are given the responsibility to make decisions about their patients’ lives.

I work with some fantastic therapy assistants who are extremely experienced and the team I run could not function without them. They’ve probably hoisted more patients that some people have had hot dinners, but would I ask them to assess a patient’s ability to transfer and make a decision on how that patients was to be transferred on the ward? Absolutely not.

Keyworker in the current climate absolutely! I think there is a distinction between HCP being read as P being a provider or a professional.
To me professional implies one of the registered professions; nursing, midwifery, physio, OT etc.

I would count those whose titles are regulated by law and registered under the HCPC and the other medical regulators.

@Multicover I am not a hca but I do work in care. I also do not work in a nursing home with means models of nursing are irrelevant in this situation. I suspect you are asking these questions to seem more educated than me but you actually appear quite ignorant.

We audit and standardise our care plans fine without your input. How dare you insinuate that I think I am ‘writing’ care plans- I do this everyday. I am trained, audited and I know how to do my job.

As mentioned above- I live in scotland. I suggest you look up SSSC and the freely review to understand better what I do.

I’m a carer and I wouldn’t consider myself a HCP from that role. I’m also a student nurse so I am currently learning the difference in training between NVQs and a nursing degree with registration. The difference is enormous.

I do not think not being a HCP takes anything away from the impact that HCA’s have or the job they do. It just isn’t a professional job.

And honestly the people I care for don’t give a fig that I’m not a professional. They value their carers just as much as the nurses/drs/etc, probably more because they see them more often.

‘Professional’ specifically means a member of a regulated profession, and this is true across all sectors.

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson this would mean that carers are professionals in Scotland

I think the Scottish system sounds very good. I do think standardised training and registration for HCAs and carers is an excellent idea.
The variation in calibre and training among people with the same title helps nobody. I know this from experience and it isn't fair.

There is a campaign currently being run to stop people using words such as unskilled, untrained and unqualified. HCA's, carers, bands 2,3,4 etc are none of these things.

Judging by this thread a lot of people seem to misunderstand accountability. As a registered member of staff you are only accountable for your decision to delegate a task. Once a HCA or similar accepts this delegation the accountability for performing this task is on them. So yes, if a HCA was to hoist someone incorrectly the registered staff member would be accountable for why they delegated that task (staff member was trained, competent and confident), but the HCA would be accountable for putting the patient in upside down or something equally daft.

Band 4's are also able to assess patients and progress treatments from a therapy point of view. They often have their own case load which they see from beginning to end.

@Endofthelinefinally I agree. I appreciate I’m coming from the perspective of a leadership role in care. Let’s hope our pay rises in line with our professional recognition soon.

[quote franklyshankly2]@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson this would mean that carers are professionals in Scotland[/quote]
Sure - social care professionals, presumably, as distinct from health care professionals?

[quote franklyshankly2]@Multicover I am not a hca but I do work in care. I also do not work in a nursing home with means models of nursing are irrelevant in this situation. I suspect you are asking these questions to seem more educated than me but you actually appear quite ignorant.

We audit and standardise our care plans fine without your input. How dare you insinuate that I think I am ‘writing’ care plans- I do this everyday. I am trained, audited and I know how to do my job.

As mentioned above- I live in scotland. I suggest you look up SSSC and the freely review to understand better what I do.[/quote]
I’m not trying to appear more educated.
I’m trying to illustrate the differences in the processes that have to be undertaken at different levels of performance within the same ‘type’ of health or social care. There is little point in trying to engage in discussion because you are so defensive. There have been plenty of examples given of what constitutes a professional role. A HCA does not have ultimate responsibility and autonomy for patient and client care. i.e the buck stops with those in more senior roles. That role falls to those who are regulated by professional bodies. There’s no arguing with that.

As a registered member of staff you are only accountable for your decision to delegate a task. Once a HCA or similar accepts this delegation the accountability for performing this task is on them

This is absolutely not true. As a registered memeber of staff you are accoubtable for all aspects of patient care. If a patient was put into bed upside down (daft, I know, but your example), you would ultimately be responsible for that. Patient care is always your responsibility, in delegating all you're doing is getting someone else to do the task for you, but the outcome is still your responsibility. This is why good HCAs are invaluable, but bad HCAs are quite frankly a burden.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

As a registered member of staff you are only accountable for your decision to delegate a task. Once a HCA or similar accepts this delegation the accountability for performing this task is on them

This is absolutely not true. As a registered memeber of staff you are accoubtable for all aspects of patient care. If a patient was put into bed upside down (daft, I know, but your example), you would ultimately be responsible for that. Patient care is always your responsibility, in delegating all you're doing is getting someone else to do the task for you, but the outcome is still your responsibility. This is why good HCAs are invaluable, but bad HCAs are quite frankly a burden.

This.

Who do you think the HCA is accountable to?

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson not in Scotland no