Who do you consider to be a HCP?

[Oldenpeculiar]

As in health care professional?

Do you consider allied jobs such as a health care assistant on a ward a HCP? Or care assistants in the community or care homes to be HCPs?

I'm doing some training as a care worker and it's surprised me that I am considered by some, to be a HCP. I don't think this is the general perception of care workers is it?

Although the course I'm doing is nvq level 5 (management) having completed 3, and that required a lot of knowledge, practical skills and evidence to pass. Looking at 5 there's a lot more. A really good thing.

I don't think generally, people realise how much in depth training into care and general health, good practice and legislation etc is covered in the training offered to care assistants, and thus don't consider them a professional. Though a higher level of training can command a better hourly rate, it often doesn't. I'm still on nmw despite having my 3.
I quite often hear how care is unskilled, and not a profession, to justify low pay and poor working conditions, however with the training being improved all the time, surely it should start to be considered as a profession?
It's quite demoralising to hear despite the training you've done, the skills you've learned, you're unskilled and bottom of the heap - and I don't think that reflects well on societies view towards those we look after either.
I'd welcome some regulation of care workers, like a pin, although the flip side to all this is care costing more, which affects everyone.
What do you think?

It depends- I’m a surgical registrar (ST4). I value HCAs hugely on the ward (especially when they’ve completed the fluid balance immaculately!) but I wouldn’t consider them a ‘health care professional’ I suppose. I would consider a nurse to be. For me it would be the nurse is registered with the NMC and should have more advanced knowledge. Such as on my nightshifts, if I receive a bleep from the ward because a patient has dropped their blood pressure to say a systolic of 75, I would expect the nurse to tell me she has checked the drains, wound dressings, what is the heart rate etc and any further deterioration. A HCA (in my experience, I realise this is not universal just as not all surgeons are males with huge egos!) would know the number is lower than it should be and to escalate this but wouldn’t necessarily think hypovolemic shock, sepsis etc.
So I would consider nurses, midwives, drs, surgeons and physiotherapists are HCPs. Physios are a god send in orthopaedics and for chest physio in medicine!
I appreciate carers in the community give meds but I do not know how vast their knowledge is of medications- such as do they know the purpose of bisoprolol, anti-hypertensives causing falls etc.
Sorry if that’s waffle, I’ve come off nights and that’s made me think . Basically anybody on a register!!

None of my post is meant to be offensive or demean carers- just as I am not offended when somebody asks to see the consultant or I’m told ‘it’s a consultant to consultant decision’ despite me knowing the patient better than my consultant! It’s just education/hierarchy that I imagine exists outside of healthcare too

Actually many would

Im a social worker, I don’t know any of my colleagues who would consider themselves health care professionals - social work is a distinct profession in its own right. They might work in health and social care partnerships but I’ve not seen any refer to themselves as health care professionals.

To go back to your hoisting example - it would be (or should be!!) a HCP such as an OT that undertakes a M&H assessment and produces a M&H plan - especially on more complex cases. The care assistant would then follow the M&H plan. If you didn’t hoist properly not only would they look at if you had had training and done things correctly but also who had assessed for and recommended the equipment in the first place!

That for me is the difference - a HCP would professionally accountable to a registered body for the decisions they make.

It is different in care homes about hoists. Nursing home have nurses who assess residents for hoists. In residential homes it is different, Senior carers are nominated and train to assess residents.

Any way I may have to leave this thread, as some people don't understand.

A health care professional is someone who has undertaken regulated training, holds a registered qualification, is registered with a professional body and works in healthcare. Some social workers work specifically in healthcare settings and specialities so are HCPs . But not all social workers are HCPs. A nursing assistant does an extremely valued job, but is not a nurse. In the same way as a teaching assistant is not a teacher, or a physio assistant is not a physio.

I worked with and trained the HCAs on my team. I absolutely valued and respected them. I tried to persuade one of them to do their nursing training and would have supported their application. However, that individual was comfortable in their role and didn't want to undertake the expense and time, neither did they want the responsibility. Registered HCPs worry a lot about their registration because it costs them so much in time, studying and money.
If a group of people want to set up a register and set the requirements and standards to be on that register I have no problem with that at all. But it isn't the responsibility of anyone else to do that.
I do think training and qualifications such as NVQs should be recognised and reflected in pay scales too.

In terms of HCPs there is degree level academic training and then regulatory body registration which are present as means to protect the public and uphold a standard level of education and clinical skills across the UK. I would have no issue with a system being in place for HCAs to do this.
The use of the word professional however, particularly in healthcare, bestows responsibility on the bearer that indicates they have clinical reasoning skills and then are accountable for decisions made following this process. This is the distinction between bands 4 and 5. HCAs are highly skilled and invaluable, but they do not have the level of education to be responsible for thorough clinical assessment, diagnostic and management of patients that would be expected of a B5 and above.

HCPC stands for health and care professions council, not healthcare professions council.

Forgot to add mandatory continuous professional development, training and revalidation are conditions of professional registration for HCPs. There are no such mandatory requirements for non HCPs.

I do think there should be some kind of regulation of carers because the work they do is invaluable, definitely. But then they'd get paid more, which simply wouldn't do, would it...

I'm a nurse, I consider hca to be a health care professional. I understand the arguments about registration but like you say you have responsibility to assess and care for patients as part of a team.

I could not do my job without hcas and I rely heavily on them to inform me of problems that I may not have noticed yet.

In an nhs trust the training requirements are high and ongoing. It is a professional role.

But would you ask your HCAs to write a care plan dita?
Would you ask a therapy assistant to come and review a patient whose mobility suddenly deteriorated?

Dita, who takes responsibility and escalates to the registrar or consultant? With whom does the buck stop? Who loses their registration if the clinical nursing assessment is incorrect or incomplete?

@Felty exactly. There is a difference in education and I don’t think hierarchy should always be treated as a negative! A consultant would make an extremely expensive tea maker for example! That’s why there are ward hosts. Similarly, a routine cannula is a waste of my skills- that’s more appropriate for the FY1 if the nurses can’t do it (obviously I’m not talking about in emergencies, but the standard 2pm IV drugs round time when it’s noticed a pt has knocked their cannula isn’t really for the registrar...). There is a difference in education between different grades/roles.
The theatre support workers (HCAs, I believe band 2) are invaluable for fetching equipment etc and many have worked in theatres for years and years but would I call them at 2am for their opinion and to have a go on a serious perforation? Absolutely not.
I’ve found a lot of confusion on the ward recently with nursing associates, they seem unable to give IVs (pt needed a bolus of Hartman’s urgently) but are above a hca and have their own allocated patients. How does that work? Who is responsible for the patient’s IVs? I’m genuinely interested because it seemed like a whole new headache in terms of accountability.
I don’t think carers/HCAs should be offended by not being considered as professionals, in the same way most of us aren’t offended when told we’re low earners compared to the bankers on the trading floor of Goldman Sachs!

@Felty

But would you ask your HCAs to write a care plan dita? Would you ask a therapy assistant to come and review a patient whose mobility suddenly deteriorated?

Interesting points. I guess it comes down to clinical reasoning? Which has been taught & developed over the 3 year degree and honed in practice. Not sure it could be taught in a module. But there is also a big difference between a senior therapy assistant and a care assistant. And there's a difference in what a HCA on an acute hospital ward is expected to do and a carer working for a private agency, going into people's homes.

Of course in a hospital or nursing home, no HCA don't have to deal with writing a care plan. As a Senior Carer in a residential home, we have to write a residents care plan.

I consider carers HCPs

@ginisnotoriginal I agree about the nursing associates. I dont think you need them AND HCAs. I work in GP now and am going down the ANP route, but have only just recently left ED were I was band 5/6. They were being introduced in my last few months there I didnt see much value in having yet another career group.

I work in Paeds, our clinical support workers are amazing really couldn’t do without them, they are really missed on shifts if we don’t have any on.

Ours have trained to do bloods, tube feeds, suction, tracheostomy care etc they are brilliant at what they do. Some of them have been there for 25/30 years and know the place inside out. We also have nursery nurses they are band 4 do same and more - take patients within a team. Csw are band 2.
I think they are professionals in their own field and are very much underpaid and undervalued by the nhs. I’ve not worked out with as a nurse so I don’t know how the private sector works.

Re nursing associates - will they ever do iv’s? If they take patients then on my ward it could potentially mean if I was on nights I would have to do all the wards iv antibiotics and sometimes that’s more than half the ward so I’d never see my patients. Our newly qualified nurses are being put through iv training as soon as possible and I think the uni is making sure they are competent on qualifying with the ward to sign off practical so they can do them as soon as they start.

Is this not a linguistic conundrum?

I'm registered with the HCPC I am a professional in the sense that I am registered with a professional body.

Does that mean I think carers are unqualified or unskilled? Absolutely not. Some of the moving and handling advisors I work with know more than me.

Isn't this a bit like the difference between a chartered and non chartered accountant? Just because someone isn't chartered doesn't mean they don't know more than someone who is chartered, they just haven't taken that set of exams/coursework.

In Scotland we (care workers) have to pay registration towards a professional body (SSSC) and have to prove CPD. We also must complete certain qualifications

Think we should do that in England too, I would be quite happy to do so.

I think they are professionals in their own field

This is exactly what I mean, at level 5 I should be considered to be a professional in my field - which is part of health and social care.
As it is wanting that is just seen as muscling in on nurses territory. It's not, why shouldn't someone who has undergone training, development and learned skills, are responsible for those in their care, the decisions they make, risk asses and care plan, be considered professionals in their field? Health and social care.

I'm not a nurse, I don't have the medical training of a nurse, I don't call myself a nurse, I don't want to be recognised as a nurse, but that doesn't mean I don't have training and skills worth recognising. I want to be recognised as a care assistant, for the training and skills I have, as a care assistant. So many here just thinking it's about care assistants wanting to be recognised as nurses, that's not what I'm saying. But again, it's a very common theme when ever this is brought up.

I've been through CQC investigations - they are the regulating body, and had to give statements/justify and explain my own actions regarding an incident.
But I'm not accountable?

I have to attend mandatory training sessions to keep my job, but I don't do cpd?

I don't work with nurses, there isn't one on site, as senior care it's my responsibility to asses and care plan, and risk asses those in my care.
I decide when there's an issue who the appropriate person to escalate it to is, and if it's immediately urgent or routine, and have to explain and justify my decision.
Yet I have no clinical judgement skills?

If this thread has illuminated anything it's that even people within healthcare don't understand how much responsibility, training and skills care assistants need to do their job.

And again, I don't know why people are so against someone who's done those things, is skilled in their field, has responsibility for people, being recognised for that.

Maybe like a pp said, to do that means we'd maybe need to be paid more, and get a bit of respect instead of derision, and that would never do.

To be fair, the attitudes here are of no surprise, as I said in my OP, I was surprised to learn that I would be considered a HCP, especially at level 5 (registered managers award btw) manager is l5, the only difference between us in regards to training, expectations of practice and accountability, will literally be her job title.
But then even though she's registered with the CQC as a manager, she's probably not a professional either?

@franklyshankly2

In Scotland we (care workers) have to pay registration towards a professional body (SSSC) and have to prove CPD. We also must complete certain qualifications

Yes, this is what I would like to see happen too @Vodkaredbullgirl.

Judging by this thread though there's some that won't be happy about that and still wouldn't consider us professionals in our own right. Because we don't have a nursing degree, but are just wannabe nurses.