8 year old sleep help [sad]

[Eeve]

Apologise, posting in Chat for traffic.

I'm at the end of my tether with DD, 8. She doesn't sleep through the night, well, not in her own bed.

I have to lie with her for her to fall asleep (else she will stay up all night, reading - I've tried or will just keep coming in to me). When she gets up I put her back, but I've got a very emotionally intense job that I can't do if I'm tired, so I end up falling asleep with her, or letting her sleep with me.

Context - her DF and I are divorced (when she was 3) and he doesn't mind the sleep thing, he'll just let her in the bed. I'm remarried and whilst DH doesn't mind, I want a full nights sleep.

DD says she doesn't know why. She promises to try during the day, but gets scared, I think at night. We've tried reward charts but they don't work and she gets upset as she knows I'm disappointed but she really can't help it.

I'm desperate.

My dd is the same. She now has a king size bed and I just sleep with her.

Forget the behavioural approaches and sticker charts. Your child is anxious and unsettled at some level. She needs your support to develop her resilience and sense of safety. She needs to know your relationship is rock solid.. She needs you to be available to her- she knows you're finding it a burden but that doesn't help her just adds to her anxiety.
Give her what she needs and start to talk to her about feelings, worries and coping. She'll let you know when she's ready.

@Tickledtrout I hear you, but it also means I have to go to bed at 8pm every night. It's making me really miserable. A day of home schooling and working then in bed with her all night is a lot

I suppose you've tried the landing light on and her bedroom door ajar. It worked for me at that age.

Has she seen a therapist? I think that would be a good place to start.

Yes, all manner of lights.

She's too shy to see a therapist.

If you don't mind sleeping with her, can you tell her that you are coming later, so not to worry?
I used to co sleep with my dc, and while we slept in a same bed, I let my dc go to bed earlier, and he always asked me "Are you coming?" and I said yes. That made him settle and go to sleep. And I'm talking about when he was like a toddler age. Sense of knowing that I was coming made him feel safe, I think.

She is a child, it's not her choice to see a therapist if you think she needs it.

@Eeve

Yes, all manner of lights.

She's too shy to see a therapist.

I wouldn't be phrasing it as a choice, tbh. If she were physically ill, but too shy to see a doctor, you'd take her, i hope. She's suffering, and she's starting to feel guilt and shame around that too. You need to be the adult here, and get her some help.

Take all the pressure off for a bit. You can't force her to feel more secure, that will come in time.

I'd probably try sitting with her while she goes to sleep with the assurance that you'll come to sleep with her when you go to bed. I used to do this and use the time to get on with work on my laptop, so it wasn't wasted time. Then you can have some time in the evening to yourself.

There's also a good CBT book for kids called What To Do When You Worry Too Much.

My anxious dc was helped by learning some breathing exercises.

This sounds familiar! I broke down at my wits end after a fortnight of broken sleep which corresponded with schools closing abruptly before Christmas. GP suggested “My hidden chimp” to work through which we have and I can hear him using some of the soft skills and I also picked up “what to do when you dread your bed”. The GP also insisted on a strict bedtime routine and the dread book helps you set one that suits your child and then tips to bring it forward. Consistency is key. I also make sure my son has a warm milk and a yoghurt / chicken slices / veg sticks so he doesn’t wake up hungry but the milk also releases a chemical which helps melatonin. I’ve used Lizzie Loves sleepy which has magnesium in which also helps with the melatonin.

I’m sorry I’ve not got a quick fix but using the books helped us find his natural rhythm and we’ve gone from having to sit with him from 7.45 to just gone 10pm when he seems to fall asleep to now he’ll read for a bit (didn’t like being alone upstairs iniatially) and then we’ll take turns to join him for a few pages, cuddle, a little chat over the positives of the day and what we are looking forward to the next day.

He’s not quite sleeping through but we’ve prepped a little bed at the end of ours that he makes his way into at some point but he doesn’t disturb us so our sleep has improved and he knows that there is a “plan b”.

Good luck.

Thanks, all. I've tried what to do when you dread your bed, and what to do when you worry too much.

@Xerochrysum yeah, therapy doesn't work like that.

But it does with an 8yr old. You just say "i know bedtime is really hard for you right now, and I've done everything i can to help, but it's not working, so we're going to go and see a doctor who can help us figure out how to make bedtime calm and lovely so we can all get the sleep we need."

You don't say "you've obviously got problems and need professional help".

Therapists who specialise in children this age are experts in getting them to engage without feeling pressured or stressed.

It sounds like you've tried everything, and you've still got a deeply insecure, unhappy, tired little girl. I don't think you have any other options really.

What do you mean? So your child is suffering, but you as a parent has no say in if she sees the therapist or not because your child is shy and refuse to see them?

Your dd has suffered so much through your break up and new marriage, to make things even worse, we are in the global pandemic. You are feeling she is an burden. It's your child, please be a parent, and think of her as priority for once.

Has she always been like this, or did she used to be able to sleep through the night and this is a new thing? That makes a big difference I think.

Does she have an alexa in her room? My DD will play ‘sleep sounds’ for a bit which helps.

@HalfTermHalfTerm nope, always been like this!

@Xerochrysum go away.

It took 7 years to get our girl out of our bedroom. I kid you not one day she just stayed in her bed. She still sometimes begs to come in our bed at the age of almost 9 but understands if I say no. I wish I had all the answers for you. Does your room have enough space for a temporary bed to try and start with at least her being by your side but becoming more confident with sleeping in her own bed. Eventually moving to another room?

It is clear that OP is some sort of therapist herself, she reference it when she speaks about her work so I'm certain she's tried most of the methods out there.

My 8 year old daughter is the same OP. Her father and I divorced when she was 3 and then over the last couple of years it's almost like it's hit her that her Dad left. She's very attached to me and needs constant hugs and reassurance, it's draining. I tried a Counsellor but my daughter just wouldn't engage.
We now talk, a lot. I set expectations for bedtime and sometimes when I simply can't do anymore, I will gently tell her. I don't really have a solution, I'm just letting you know you're not alone.

Oh and ignore the responses from the tw@t who thinks you're not putting your child first.

"go away."

Will do. Good luck.

@DM1209 - thank you, I appreciate that. Yes (ironically) I'm a clinical psychologist, though I normally work with adolescents. My daughter has just started play therapy just before lockdown as she has does have some anxiety. She has some traits of ASD, so she finds the social aspects of school difficult.

DD isn't tired! She's quite happy as I do sleep with her - it's me that's tired!

My DD used to be like this at this age although I didn’t have to sit with her but she was very anxious about going to bed and had a big fear of burglars coming into the house (we’ve never been burgled but her bedroom is nearest to the stairs). She had to have someone downstairs (my DH) when she went to bed but also wanted the reassurance of me being upstairs so I would be in bedroom watching TV and that was enough to reassure her that I was still there but DH was downstairs to stop anyone coming in. Once she was asleep I would go back downstairs but she would often wake in the night and was genuinely scared of being alone. We ended up putting a put up bed in her our room and if she woke in the night she would just come and get in there and was reassured as she wasn’t alone. She grew out of it by about 10 and now happily goes to bed by herself and sleeps through. I’ve no real suggestions other than would it work if you were upstairs pottering so she knows you are around rather than having to get into bed with her? My DD was genuinely frightened and although it was frustrating I could see she wasn’t being naughty. I also bought the “what to do when you worry too much” book which seemed to help.

@Turquoisesea that's really helpful, thank you. Yes, she talks about being scared that someone will come and burgle us!