So sad for my 5yo DD after chatting to my 14 yo DN

[Readysetcake]

My niece is 14 and has been filling us in over a family zoom about what goes on on her social media- basically dic pics and getting asked for pictures all the time. She says her and her mates troll paedophiles for a laugh and that all this started around age 10 in year 6. In year 8 one of her peer group sent in her words “hoo ha” pics to a boyfriend that the got sent around the whole year. 13 for fucks sake.

This has made me terrified and so sad for my DD 5. She’s so innocent and trusting it’s made me feel a bit sick to think in 5 years or less more likely she will be exposed to all this shit.

I know I can’t lock her away but that is what I feel like doing right right now. Googling Amish communities. I feel a bit guilty for her having her knowing she will have to navigate this bullshit world

This is really not normal and to my mind it's not typical parenting to be ok with this. They should be protecting her not encouraging her to "troll" anyone, let alone let mixed up in messaging dodgy people. That's really sad. If her parents haven't taken action and find it find they probably won't respond well to you saying anything. Maybe think of contacting the school re safeguarding?

@snowydaysandholidays I think that's a really sensible and realistic post

This used to happen when I was a young teen at school. It was just the girls being silly, never met up with anybody etc. This was the early days of the net,

@strawberriesontheNeva

This used to happen when I was a young teen at school. It was just the girls being silly, never met up with anybody etc. This was the early days of the net,

No naked/ genital pics were sent though. It was just chat room chat.

My dc is in yr8, and I don't think it's normal. Hope yr8 child trolling adults doesn't back fire and hurts her in any way. I would be telling her mum or dad. But you say she is telling this on family zoom, so her parents are ok about this? Then I feel sorry for her for having a parents like that.

It's not normal, I have a 14 year old girl.

Definitely not the norm. I have 14 year old DD

I don't think this is even slightly normal - at 10 years old?!! Dd is the youngest of her cohort and is 11. Nothing like this is going on, I monitor everything closely. It couldn't be more innocent. Obviously it's too soon to say for age 14 but sounds like it was a progression that your DN started very young. Hopefully we know a bit more about internet safety now to teach our dc and monitor their activity

I also think you should report this to the safeguarding team at your dn’s school.

@chipsandgin

Not normal at all - if anything I’d have safeguarding concerns for your niece. I say this as a mum of a 17 year old DS who has thankfully avoided that kind of shit so far. I do find social media really fucking disturbing & it is a massive cultural shift (especially for those of us who grew up before mobile phones & the internet..).

However dick pics at 14, trolling paedophiles, sending graphic personal photos etc are all thankfully rare and sadly dependent on peer group & probably a lack of parental control/involvement and influence.

Mostly though the kids are a product of the environment they grow up in, which thankfully OP you still have influence over now and for a while longer. This will be the deciding factor in whether your little girl goes in the direction of your niece (not nieces fault at all, just circumstance presumably).

This is an article which explains what I’m trying to say far more coherently: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777050/

It’s not a forgone conclusion - the culture your niece is describing is a reality for some now, but it is by no means the only way. There are nice kids and nice environments around.

Also all teen generations in the last century or so have faced their own challenges. The late 80s/early 90s were brilliant, but we were flashed at on a regular basis, rape wasn’t taken very seriously, mental health problems didn’t exist (I.e weren’t recognised, acknowledged or treated) so they often led to awful outcomes. Homophobia, racism and sexism were rife and commonplace to the extent that they were normalised and laughed off and people still used offensive terms for anyone with any mental or physical disability freely and with no comeback or judgement. You are just describing the evolution of this shit.

We didn’t get ‘dick pics’ we just saw weirdos wanking at us in real life. We didn’t ‘troll peados’ but our mothers did tell us that when men exposed themselves to us in the park we should ‘point, laugh, make a disparaging comment such as “I’ve seen bigger things crawl out of an apple” and then run (my sister & I have laughed about what on earth we would have done had we pointed, laughed and ran but forgotten the put down....maybe run back say it & then run again!?).

We didn’t send pictures of our genitals to other people (it would have cost a fortune in Boots and the pocket money wouldn’t have covered it..) but an early conversation about that will help your DD, to avoid it as sending them screams low self esteem/the need for external validation.

What I am saying OP is that the world can be and always has been a shitty place - it’s up to you to give your DD high values and expectations, to establish clear boundaries and communication & do your best to make sure the people who become ‘her people’ are decent and kind and strong. You’ve got plenty of time as your DD is only 5....over to you.

Well said. Exactly this!

Guide your child and dont pretend it doesn't exist. Once at high school your child will have peer pressure and you will have less influence. Its down to you to guide and explain things to them and answer questions.

If it's any help, joining an Amish community is no better - girls who get abused there are often punished, while the abusers are briefly socially excluded then forgiven, and in the US the Amish are among the largest groups running puppy mills with horrendous animal welfare as they don't believe that dogs have souls.

Which is just to say that dodgy people are everywhere. I would say that your niece's parents are not behaving appropriately if they think this is acceptable and I'd consider talking to the safeguarding lead. As for the rest, unfortunately there is a lot out there but the best any of us can do is build a strong connection so our children can talk to us, educate them on minimising risk and monitor appropriately. We also had lots of risks when we were younger, even if they were different ones, and we mostly turned out ok.

Anyone on here with a child over 10 who thinks their dc isn’t exposed to this stuff in some form is delusional!

Being open with parents and a bit savvy is a good thing, but tormenting the online creeps is inviting trouble. I’d be advising your niece’s parents to get her to steer clear of it.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the implications of children being in possession of photos of other children if underage, nor the fact that visiting the paedophile sites is extremely dodgy if the police were to look at the family computers.
It is a CRIME for anyone to possess photos of underage children and merely deleting it isn't enough - you should report it. While the police are unlikely to charge 12 year olds sharing pics on WhatsApp, I don't think any 15 year old should think they're immune. It's a murky horrible world when you even open the door.
If nothing else, please tell your kids how serious this is from a crime perspective even if they think it's funny.

Sadly this is becoming more normal. If your child has unsupervised access to the internet there is a high chance of this happening. Even children sharing sexualised images between themselves as they think it’s ‘funny’

Most parents are horrified at the idea and assume it’s not happening to their kids but it possibly is.

SM should not be allowed to children under the age of 16.

Tbh I’ve been staggered at the home education facebook sites. There are always posts by mothers giving away their children computer ID so they can meet other children in online games.

Facebook and Instagram is full of creeps messaging young children. In fact any messaging system will be an open door for people wanting to exploit children.

I find this thread really concerning.

Are most parents totally unaware? Or do those who are aware of some children doing this think all children are doing it?

Thanks for all comments and links. Especially @chipsandgin. I hope to have an open relationship with DD and she feels she can be as open as DN. But she will most certainly have more restrictions and monitoring of her internet use and devices.

I’m grateful to DN for opening my eyes. But I’m 100% sure she’s seen and been in worse situation than she described.

Also to posters to say this sort of thing has always gone on its so true. I’ve memories of low level sexual harassment as a teen that was considered par for course. And laughing with mates over flashers and people trying to feel you up while having an erection pressed against you when we went clubbing underage. It will probably look different to now when my DD is the same age but it’s guaranteed there will be creeps trying to get access to young girls some how.

DN doesn’t really get parented at all. She has total access to the internet no one checks her phone. It’s scary. She goes to bed at 3am and doesn’t get out of bed until the afternoon. She was always bad for going to bed but way worse in lockdown. Her dad works away and her mum is disabled so she is pretty much left to it. Which the parents admit. Lockdown has been bad for her. I worry about her falling behind in her work. She’s a good student and likes school but has no one checking she’s done stuff and is more likely just on her phone than doing her maths. I assume she’s not going to live lessons if she is not getting out of bed until 2pm . This is my DH family so don’t feel I could challenge and ask question as I would if was my own.

To clarify she says they don’t send pics they just write stuff to tease the creeps. Also it was not her pic that got sent around school it was someone in her year and the police got involved. She said she wouldn’t send pics to boyfriends as it’s so common for them to get sent around after breaking up. She is savvy and hardened to it all. But must be so many out there who are not and totally vulnerable.

@Readysetcake

Thanks for all comments and links. Especially *@chipsandgin*. I hope to have an open relationship with DD and she feels she can be as open as DN. But she will most certainly have more restrictions and monitoring of her internet use and devices.

I’m grateful to DN for opening my eyes. But I’m 100% sure she’s seen and been in worse situation than she described.

Also to posters to say this sort of thing has always gone on its so true. I’ve memories of low level sexual harassment as a teen that was considered par for course. And laughing with mates over flashers and people trying to feel you up while having an erection pressed against you when we went clubbing underage. It will probably look different to now when my DD is the same age but it’s guaranteed there will be creeps trying to get access to young girls some how.

DN doesn’t really get parented at all. She has total access to the internet no one checks her phone. It’s scary. She goes to bed at 3am and doesn’t get out of bed until the afternoon. She was always bad for going to bed but way worse in lockdown. Her dad works away and her mum is disabled so she is pretty much left to it. Which the parents admit. Lockdown has been bad for her. I worry about her falling behind in her work. She’s a good student and likes school but has no one checking she’s done stuff and is more likely just on her phone than doing her maths. I assume she’s not going to live lessons if she is not getting out of bed until 2pm . This is my DH family so don’t feel I could challenge and ask question as I would if was my own.

To clarify she says they don’t send pics they just write stuff to tease the creeps. Also it was not her pic that got sent around school it was someone in her year and the police got involved. She said she wouldn’t send pics to boyfriends as it’s so common for them to get sent around after breaking up. She is savvy and hardened to it all. But must be so many out there who are not and totally vulnerable.

Please do contact her school. They may not be aware that she is a young carer. As a young carer she should be able to have a place in school during lockdown - if her and family take it up is a different matter.

@chipsandgin this will sound so stupid but how do you ensure a child has enough self esteem, self worth and doesn’t need that validation? I worry worry about this type of thing constantly because I was terrible as a tween/teen. Sexually active from extremely young and generally only interested in boys. How do I stop my kids ending up similar.

I think you need to make it clear that you do not want to hear or dd be exposed to this. It is not normal behaviour if not uncommon among some groups of teens sadly. It is a safeguarding issue and illegal, is school aware?

Another one popping on to say I have a dd the same age and this sort of online activity is definitely out of the norm. Poor kid, what a jaded existence at such a young age. I hope you manage to talk to someone who’ll help draw her away from this sort of thing.

Definitely a jaded existence. But she’s very happy and doesn’t see it that way and doesn’t want for anything. They definitely don’t see her as being a young carer, though undoubtedly she is. But the mother would never admit it I don’t think. She’s touchy about her condition. And I think she would refuse to go to school anyway.

Those saying contact the school it would cause such a family rift if I did. There is no way my DH would support my saying anything and he wouldn’t contact the school. I genuinely don’t believe she isn’t in physical danger but she could expose others to this that aren’t as savvy.

She has a younger cousin so I will talk it through with SIL as they chat online and she wasn’t in the call last night. So want to make sure she knows what was said so she is able to monitor what they talk of. She can then have it out with her brother if she chooses.

This is not normal.

I’ve been teaching 25 years. This is a serious safeguarding issue. Sharing of photographs is illegal in a minor. If they are being shared across the group this is akin to sharing child porn.

I don’t know about winding up oeadopvikes, but the photos are breaking every legal and safeguarding law going. It needs reporting to the school.

My dd is 14. She spends her spare time painting, watching gamers and playing online games. She doesn’t do this.

And most 13 year olds don’t even have boyfriends never mind sending pictures.

If you don’t report it you would be breaking the law. This is about protection of a minor and needs reporting. You could be in dodgy waters if anything happened because if it.

I would particularly want to question why a 13 year old is behaving in such a precocious manner. Has she been subject to something.

We have endless safeguarding training. This is in breach of all of it. If it was my family I’d be seriously concerned.

She may not be in physical danger, but admitting trolling strangers on internet, especially adults who may potentially be dangerous at that age is worry enough for me, as well as her parents seems ok with it.