Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

@DedlyMedally

Yes. I'd imagine a lot of Eastern European people have in the last decade or so for example. But if you mean in the sense of British people experiencing racism from a minority group in Britain I think that has been decoupled from the idea of racism because it's unhelpful. Use of racial slurs is not really what people are talking about when they experience racism as a societal issue, in the same way that calling some a "bitch" is not a major issue when it comes to sexism. It's just the most visible and undeniable aspect.

If it is not because of their skin colour then surely this is xenophobia not racism?

@Chookie89 under the Equality Act, “race” is defined as ethnic origin, colour, nationality and/or citizenship. Discrimination for any of these criteria is therefore racial discrimination.

If it is not because of their skin colour then surely this is xenophobia not racism?

I'd call it racism, but I guess it depends in the definition of race you would use.

@dementedma

Yes. Experienced in Scotland often. It was very bad during the 2014 referendum

That wasn't racism. That was nationalism. Racism is about skin colour and ethnicity. Nationalism is about intelligence and stupidity.

I think it is important here to make the distinction between whether white people “can” be a victim of racial discrimination (of course they can, as any human being can) and whether this translates to every day racism on the streets (which as white people are not a minority ethnic group in UK is less likely).

Any ethnicity or nationality is capable of discrimination towards any other. It is categorically NOT a prerogative of white people, in terms of the legal definition. What happens in practice is another matter. The formal definition stands.

Equality laws must be applied to all equally regardless of race, as they exist to protect everyone. Racism is never acceptable in any form, from any source.

I think so yes, I’m not white I am mixed race but I look very much white, I’ve only ever personally experienced racism from black peoples because I look white, but I’ve heard People say “black people cant be racist”

@Babdoc

Try being English in Scotland, OP! One of the consultant surgeons from my hospital had an SNP supporter spit in his face, shouting “Bloody English” - for daring to chat (to his own wife!) in an English accent in a shopping street in broad daylight. I have been intimidated by a Scottish van driver while campaigning against the independence referendum. I have been warned to stay silent by Scots friends, and hustled out of a cinema for my own safety during a screening of Braveheart, where the atmosphere was turning distinctly ugly. And when I was a newly qualified junior doctor, I overheard two of the nurses on my ward discussing me: “How’s the new doctor?” “ Well, she’s English.” Said in a tone of disgust. Before adding grudgingly: But she’s all right.” My DD had to report one of her high school teachers for anti English racism, and suffered regular abuse from pupils during the football world cup. So yes, white people can also suffer racism.

Just for balance this works both ways - neither is right obviously, but many English are just as anti Scottish down here

Not according to the person who started this thread last year

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3928451-you-re-white-you-haven-t-experienced-racism

In native non-white countries, of course! In parts of Asia, parents will kick off if their child was dating a white person. Even in public sector or native companies, white people can be marginalised and not feel integrated. Some Asian countries also don't let you buy property unless your parents are native to the country.

@Babdoc

dementedma, absolutely agree. But according to whyyyyyythough, it isn’t racism! Presumably she thinks the Scots should get a free pass to racially abuse the English.

it literally isn’t racism 🤦🏻‍♀️. What race is being discriminated against? English isn’t a race

Yes by people of different or same colour because white people is such a general term which covers many races.

Imagine the reaction if he’d said that to an Indian or Pakistani member of the congregation.

I was today years old when I learned India and Pakistan invaded Scotland and subjugated the population for centuries

Of course. I come from a mixed background with Asian heritage on my mother's side. I know that when my (maternal) cousin married a white woman and had his first child all my relatives all gossiped that it wasnt his baby. Of course it was. But they just had this prejudice belief that white women were loose and easy. My own mother was quite awful to her and downright rude when they used to visit us as kids. I remember being only ten and telling her off. The ironic thing being she herself married a white man

"Try being English in Scotland, OP!"

Try being Scottish in England.

@NuniaBeeswax

"Try being English in Scotland, OP!"

Try being Scottish in England.

I doubt babdoc cares about that, it's Scottish people she doesn't like.

Sorry @cookie89 I know that indentured servitude had ended long before the 19th century, but if it wasn't racism against Irish people because they were Irish, why are posters saying that in to the 1990s they were being treated differently in Britain. The condition of Irish Americans is a different topic, one im not arguing about, but you'd have to be really trying hard to ignore the evidence to argue that in Britain up until the last few decades Irish people, who are white, did not experience racism. I know it was different to enslaved African Americans, but most of slavery i history was different to that, but it doesn't diminish how badly Irish people were, and to a lesser extent still are, treated in the UK.

@Happycat1212 that’s really sad.

I am aware (not directly experienced) that some members of certain South Asian communities can be horrifically racist towards black people, particularly Africans. I don’t think this is really spoken of. It is still racism.

Previous posters have mentioned Scottish discrimination towards English people, this is classed as racial discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 and is illegal. As an ex-pat Scot with a number of lovely English neighbours living in my home village, this is particularly close to my heart and really upsetting. I can’t believe how small-minded, petty and cruel some of my compatriots are becoming. I get the sense that discrimination is wrong, unless it’s against a white English person, in which case it’s ok. It is absolutely not ok. Sadly I can only see things getting worse.

Also I have been living and working in England for ten years. Never once have I experienced any sort of discrimination. The worst was probably being referred to as “Scotch”, but I think that person was still living in the 1800’s......

I definitely think "indigenous" white people can and do experience racism whilst benefiting from white privilege in wider society. I was given a hard time at school by a bully group of girls who used my (white) colour to abuse me. I also remember as a young teen being called a racist by older boys only to be hassled to prove I wasn't by sleeping with them. The first job I applied for was for a local authority. On the application you had to have X, Y, Z qualifications to apply, but if you were an ethnic minority you would be considered regardless. Teenage me, having gone through all the crap previously mentioned, thought this was horrifically unfair. Middle aged me understands that what I experienced was a drop in the ocean compared to what people of colour - particularly women of colour - have to go through every single day.

No

Yes definitely. I went to a primary school with only 10 white children and experienced racist abuse from some of the other children and also from their parents not allowing them to play with me.

I am aware (not directly experienced) that some members of certain South Asian communities can be horrifically racist towards black people, particularly Africans. I don’t think this is really spoken of. It is still racism

I have experienced it more than a few times. It's basically all lumped into racism against 'black people' though.

The town I grew up in has an area where the vast majority of residents are from Pakistan. I would walk this way to get the bus as a shy teen-ager. Women would yank their children away from me, old men would spit at my feet and older lads would intimidate me off the pavement in gangs.
So if racism is behaving badly towards someone without provocation because of their race, then yes, completely possible.
I'm sure each of these people would have a story about why they felt the way they did, but doesn't everyone in their own mind. Racism isn't nice anywhere you find it.

Polish people in the UK have experienced racism.

I think the general point is that in the UK, race was not traditionally the variable that transferred wealth and privilege between generations, it was class, education and land ownership. Prior to the post war migrations, there were communities of predominantly black sailors in major port cities, such as London, Cardiff, Bristol etc, who numbered in the 10s of thousands. But the majority of 'systemic privilege' (whatever we wish to define that as) clearly wasnt split down whether you were white, given this was ~99% of the country.