Can you just ignore a will?

[Willadvice2021]

Help me understand this situation.

Adam, his brother and their cousin. Will call them Adam , Ben and Craig for the use of this situation.

Adam, Ben and Craig both live near their dad/uncle, like two/three streets away. Ben has always had an on/off relationship with his parents. Mostly off. Declaring them all dead to him fairly regularly over the years. Ben hates Craig, no real reason, I think he dislikes the fact Craig is so involved and included like another son.. Craig’s parents died many years ago.

A few years ago Ben had a bust up with everyone over Craig being there. He hit his mother causing her a split lip and brushing (she was very elderly) and a few days later when Adam tried to speak with him he pushed him and he fell and injured his head and shoulder against the wall. Ben said everyone was dead to him and walked out. Within days their mum had died, Ben was reached out to invited to the funeral but refused to attend or correspond with anyone. When Adam reached out he sent him a message, Ben replied he wanted no contact from the family and that was that. Ben has never been close with his father and made no attempt to contact him for several years.

Ben was in ill health before this happened and Adam and Craig were having to go in several times to a day to help him with self care, shopping, washing etc. After the death of their mother the situation meant that the care was significantly increased, Adam had to take early retirement and Craig reduced his hours to be able to help. Both were called all day and night and back. Adam in particular struggled a lot with the amount of burden and is having counselling. It was very difficult

At some point a few years back their dad rewrote his will with a solicitor. He was of sound mind right in until the end but his health was very poor. He decided to include Craig into the will and gave him and Ben both 25% and the remaining 50% to Adam. He wanted to write Ben out completely but Adam said he shouldn’t do that.

Their dad died. Ben was informed but again didn’t attend the funeral or make any attempt to contact. It has been years since he saw his dad.

Now Ben is contesting the will and asking Adam to take Craig out and just split it 50/50 between them. He has made several other additional requests for specific high value items. I’m surprised this is even the option. He says he has sought legal advice but I can’t understand how the can decide to ignore/bypass the will?

Added: There isn’t much to inherit, no money and house is worth probably 100,000.

Ben was in poor health but well enough to hit his poor elderly mum, was he charged with assault, was it even investigated. He cannot ask for items back that his dad gave away whilst of sound mind and he cannot just demand items unless they are specified for him in the Will. Keep all his letters but let the solicitor deal with everything.

Sounds as if it could be Jarndyce vs Jarndyce!

Ben PUNCHED HIS ELDERLY MOTHER IN THE FACE?

Honestly I think Dad was absolutely right to want to write him out of the will. What a horrible man. He'd not be getting a penny if he was my son.

What anybody did or did not do is immaterial. If the will is legal drawn up and cannot be considered perverse then it’s valid and there is no prospect of setting it aside. The court would almost certainly award costs against the losing party.

One of the requests from Ben is a collection things that their dad has already given away to other people

If your dad gave stuff away when he was alive then Ben can’t ask for it back.

Just checked gov.uk and it says you can apply to stop the probate if:

a) there is a dispute over who can apply for probate
b) there is a dispute over whether a will exists

Surely neither of these situations applies, as a will exists and an executor has been appointed.

Adam needs to take a step back (I know it’s difficult!) and not engage personally with Ben. Let his solicitor sort it out.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

So why did nobody report him to the police for assaulting somebody who died just a few days afterwards?

They could have committed murder, but nobody's lifted a finger.

Not sure of the actual dates between, it was awhile I guess, but within a month I guess. It was years ago.

She liked to tell stories, so the details were a wee bit vague. She did tell people, but no one called the police or anything like that. It was noted in her medical notes as she was being seen my nurses daily for health issues.

Adam didn't report his either but again it's in medical notes as he needed an x-ray.

I guess they are all used to his temper, it's horrible form an outsider perspective but no one wanted to provoke him. It's funny as he is fairly successful in his jobs. We do all wonder about his wife though and what she must go through, we have tried to reach out but she is very devoted to him.

When my grandmother died she left instructions for her house to be sold and the proceeds divided 50/50 between two surviving daughters who were my two aunts. My grandmother left the contants of the house and her personal possessions to me. The house was old and unmodernised ( no electric or central heating) and had been neglected for years. It turned out that the contents were worth almost as much as the house. When this became clear my aunts were not very pleased and talked about contesting the will but were advised against it. They even tried to shame me into giving them some of the money I had got through selling my grandmothers furniture at auction - most was too large for my small flat. Naturally I refused.

I was the favorite grandchild and had visited my grandmother every week since I was a very small child. She knew what she was doing.

@Doobigetta

OP, the way your first post reads is that Ben hit his frail elderly mother during an argument, she was hospitalised as a result and then died a week or so later. If this is correct he should have been charged with either murder or manslaughter.

Sorry, I was attempting to keep the details but keep it short and vague.

I'm not sure sure the exact dates. I think a month. She wasn't hospitalised or anything. Nurse did see it as she was out already. She split her lip and had some bruising but she was very fragile so she bruised easily.

It IS horrendous. The story wasn't consistent though, it was always Ben but what he did and why he did it changed a lot. Ben denied it. It's a was a difficult one. With hindsight they should have taken it more seriously, but she wasn't badly hurt. She was constantly covered in marks as just moving her bruised her.

It wouldn't have stood up to any allegations. Plus I think the rest of the family wanted to resolve it, including the mother. I think him not turning up at the funeral was more the kicker for their dad.

I know it's odd and crazy and trust me, I was saying to call the police both times, but everyone is scared of Ben.

When my Mum died, (no controversy ) My brother was in charge, the house valued, & put up for sale, meanwhile the bills were listed (elec, alarm, gas etc) until the house was sold, as the house was still heated valuable items sold.
All the bills, funeral, wake, solicitor, house bills, my brother's various expenses were deducted at the end.
Ben is obviously a bully & shd be told the bills will be split by beneficiaries

Executors have two years from the date of death to use a deed of variation to change a will.

@user1174147897

Executors have two years from the date of death to use a deed of variation to change a will.

What's that mean? That Adam can just decide to write Craig out and put Ben back in?

No, I think it would be Craig and Adam giving part of their shares to Ben

@MrsFezziwig

One of the requests from Ben is a collection things that their dad has already given away to other people

If your dad gave stuff away when he was alive then Ben can’t ask for it back.

Just checked gov.uk and it says you can apply to stop the probate if:

a) there is a dispute over who can apply for probate
b) there is a dispute over whether a will exists

Surely neither of these situations applies, as a will exists and an executor has been appointed.

Adam needs to take a step back (I know it’s difficult!) and not engage personally with Ben. Let his solicitor sort it out.

Not sure. There was a list of other reasons such as believing the person isn't of sound mind etc I think. Not sure, I'm not privy to any of the paperwork etc.

I know Adam did write a letter to cease the hold, and Ben wrote back and said if he did that he would be paying his(Ben's) legal fees.

It's just all quite complicated to get my head around.

@SirGawain

Sounds as if it could be Jarndyce vs Jarndyce!

Haha I had to look that up. Thought it was a case that won in class action. 😆

No, not unless all the beneficiaries eg Craig, also agree.

I would ask Adam's solicitor to tell Ben that unless he drops it they intend to inform the police that Ben hit the mother who subsequently died.

Just to check the bleeding obvious - you are all in England/Wales?

@VitreousHumour

I would ask Adam's solicitor to tell Ben that unless he drops it they intend to inform the police that Ben hit the mother who subsequently died.

It's in the paperwork that Adam in sending him, along with the nursing record recording it and the injury and a carer record stating the same.

@FunnyItWorkedLastTime

Just to check the bleeding obvious - you are all in England/Wales?

Yes

Not unless Craig and Adam agree to it.

Ben is lucky he hasn’t faced a manslaughter charge....he hit his elderly mother in the head and a few days later she died!

Parents can leave differing amounts to different kids and Ben is very lucky hes got anything. My mother wrote me out her will completely and left hundreds of thousands of pounds to her neighbour. But I didn’t have a relationship with her and she can do what she wants.

I can’t imagine he has a legal case at all.

ie don't make any accusations or get involved in whether or not it will stand up - just indicate that you will involve the police and he can take his chances with them. If Ben isn't stupid he will understand that this could be a long and painful process for him and will rethink his position (he must know that he hasn't much hope of success anyway.)

Just checking - everyone always takes it for granted on wills threads that English law applies. I think Ben would still not be entitled to anything more than he’s been given in Scotland, but it is different.
In England, on the facts given, Ben can’t get anything more unless Craig decides to give it to him out of the goodness of his heart.

@VitreousHumour

ie don't make any accusations or get involved in whether or not it will stand up - just indicate that you will involve the police and he can take his chances with them. If Ben isn't stupid he will understand that this could be a long and painful process for him and will rethink his position (he must know that he hasn't much hope of success anyway.)

Ben wrote asking if they could settle it between just him and a Adam to "save Adam" from the legal fees and distress.

I've am a permanent skeptic, so I'm not sure, I am not sure Ben even spoke to his daughter about it as she spoke with Adam over email at Christmas and they wished each other a Merry Christmas. So would seem odd. As this has been going on longer than that.

However, "nowt stranger than folk"as they say (is that what they say?)

A few years ago Ben had a bust up with everyone over Craig being there. He hit his mother causing her a split lip and brushing (she was very elderly) and a few days later when Adam tried to speak with him he pushed him and he fell and injured his head and shoulder against the wall. Ben said everyone was dead to him and walked out. Within days their mum had died

Personally I'd have reported that to the Police. The mum died, fgs. Now this thug is intimidating people for money.

@FunnyItWorkedLastTime

Just checking - everyone always takes it for granted on wills threads that English law applies. I think Ben would still not be entitled to anything more than he’s been given in Scotland, but it is different. In England, on the facts given, Ben can’t get anything more unless Craig decides to give it to him out of the goodness of his heart.

Yep they are all in England

The will hasn't even been his Adams possession, the solicitor kept it. Not using the same solicitor though, went with someone more specialised. I think their dad just chose that solicitor as he would come to the house.