Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

And no, for about the 5th time, discrimination on the grounds of disability is unlawful.

People are being banned from shops, rightly, for refusing to wear a mask, this isn't a discriominatory matter, it's about dealing with the idiots who think nothing applies to Moi.

I have full sympathy for those who genuinely can not wear a mask due to a medical condition or severe trauma. The obvious solution to stop any abuse to these people and to prevent the anti-maskers shennigans is to introduce the same requirement that some airlines have, which is a medical certificate stating simply that "randomdisneyaddict is exempt from wearing a facemask". No medical information needs to be stated. Those who are exempt from presciption charges should get it issued free of charge everyone else pays a nominal fee. Produce the certificate with proof of id to confirm you are the person named on the certificate and you can enter. Then everyone would know that those not wearing masks are actually deemed medically exempt by health care professionals.

[quote trulydelicious]@Theunamedcat

Doctors do not provide notes to prove exemption

They should[/quote]
So which other public service should be cut to provide the additional funding for this?

@TidyOmlette

I don’t understand why it’s against the law to ask for proof of being exempt for a face mask yet it’s law to hold a blue badge to park in a disabled space.

It’s being abused and the people that genuinely can’t wear a mask are being hurt by it. There has to be something better in place to protect those people.

I hadn't thought of that. My DH is disabled and his last badge got lost in the post so we were without it for a couple of weeks. Fair enough, no ones fault but we pay for a pass for local car parks that is discounted for blue badge holders. We asked local council if he could have a letter or something so we could use the car park before the blue badge came. No we couldn't even though they knew what had happened and we had paid for the pass we couldn't use. Sometimes these things happen and disabled people do have to follow the rules.

Made husband grumpy but he had to get over it.

And why do people complain when the police target women?

If women are breaking the law, of course the police should be targetting them!

I haven't read the article, but I've always thought it was a dumb move to make mask-wearing exempt for certain disabilities and then allow people to print off their own proof. If the Government wanted an exemption, they should have arranged for GPs to issue exemptions in the post to the many people who should obviously be exempt, and arrange for the others to have an appointment to discuss their conditions.

I'm all in favour of someone flashing a card discreetly so they don't need to explain their personal, medical (possibly traumatic) history to an unqualified stranger. However, to get that card, they should have had to go via a medical professional.

An honesty system would be lovely, but some people are just selfish. Hence, the need for proof.

I have never, in all the months we have had this same old discussion on MN, seen anyone who doesn't wear a mask being totally honest about why they can't.

People come along with vague reasons like 'health anxiety' or say they have a 'disability'.

As I said earlier, very experienced doctors have appeared in interviews saying that even people with breathing issues can wear masks AND imo if your lungs are that bad you are clinically vulnerable so should not be in a supermarket with no mask anyway!

If you say you cannot wear a mask, how do you feel about having to wear an oxygen mask or being linked to a ventilator?

The only reason I can see for not wearing a mask if someone with PTSD where perhaps they were attacked and had their face covered as part of that attack.

There do not appear to be any medical conditions where masks are an issue. I have not heard ONE that makes sense, all through this pandemic. And doctors say the same.

@hansgrueber

And no, for about the 5th time, discrimination on the grounds of disability is unlawful.

People are being banned from shops, rightly, for refusing to wear a mask, this isn't a discriominatory matter, it's about dealing with the idiots who think nothing applies to Moi.

You are just showing your ignorance.

A blanket policy, the adverse effects of which fall disproportionately on the shoulders of members of a protected group, is an example of indirect discrimination.

In this instance, the blanket policy you suggest (everyone must wear a mask, no exemptions) falls disproportionately onto disabled people so is absolutely an example of indirect discrimination on the grounds of disability.

Good. There should have been a proper system for getting medical exemption by now, it’s been months!

so to the group of lads a couple of months ago all in primark together with no masks on shouldnt have been asked to leave because its discrimination

@NikeDeLaSwoosh Genuine question, can you please explain which disability means a person cannot use a mask in a shop for 10-15 minutes?

And a disability, please, that is recognised by the medical profession as contra-indicating masks.

And no, for about the 5th time, discrimination on the grounds of disability is unlawful.

Since the general public are so keen on finding loopholes, all supermarkets have to do is refuse service on account of it being private property and their right, and say nothing about why.

The courts haven't got the time nor the inclination to be entertaining these piss takers, who would have to 'prove' their exemption in court anyway. They won't bother.

If you're exempt and cannot avoid going (no slots etc), then be polite, respectful, and pre-empt questions by mentioning it at the door. You don't have to say why.

As I said upthread, genuine people are really worried about being questioned. Most of them are trying to find ANY way to avoid it. Piss takers relish the idea of mouthing off and getting their phone out to film.

ANY belligerence should not be tolerated and result in non service.

@trulydelicious

And why do people complain when the police target women?

If women are breaking the law, of course the police should be targetting them!

But in my experience and that of many others, they aren't breaking the actual law or guidelines, the police are deciding to make what they want of them and it seems women are falling foul of bully boy tactics. It's like after the BLM movement they know they have to be careful deliberately targeting people of colour so women are the next best thing. Women tend not to complain or to cause a fuss, they tend to be scared by the prospect of arrest and will go along with it regardless of it being utter bollocks. I know for a fact our roads neighborhood group made numerous reports to the police about aale neighbor having constant visitors, up to 20 cars in one small terrace home. Not once did the police attend and this was a nightly thing. Yet me, doing absolutely nothing to merit it, was constantly harrassed and belittled and the more you tell them you are aware that you aren't breaking the law the nastier they get. In another instance locally, a young single mum was driving to the supermarket. She was going to a cheaper one as that was her budget She was pulled over by a police car with two males who asked her where she was driving to. She explained very reasonably that she was driving to Iceland Warehouse. They said to her that to do that she would pass the nearer Waitrose and Morrisons, and why did she not shop there as it was nearer. She explained her budget didn't stretch to Waitrose, and she could get bigger packs of food stuff from Iceland, cheaper which meant not needing to go out again for some time. They refused to understand this, telling her she was in their view in breach of law by shopping at a shop when there was one neearer. She said at this point she cried as she was embarrassed at her financial situation and that she was frightened they were going to arrest her. She had never been in trouble with police. She again appealed to them and they refused to hear it, giving her a fixed penalty notice. I helped her write to the appeals people explaining, I also helped her to email police standards with a complaint. It was upheld and the fine revoked as she had not broken any rules. But how many don't have knowledge of a group online to get help locally? Or that someone like me would be on this group to offer help? Add into that disability law that is totally being ignored and those people can be even more vulnerable and you've got the perfect situation for police to take the piss

@JinglingHellsBells I’m getting slightly bored now with posting this repeatedly on various threads, but trigeminal neuralgia is the answer you’re looking for. And no, DP can’t wear a visor.

Having a reason not to wear a mask, no matter what that may be, doesn’t entitle you to breathe Covid all over a supermarket and endanger others.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

I am so fucking sick of this

Little Stasi wannabes picking on women (it's always women) and people backing them up!!

She's right - she has NO obligation to share her information. I thought she behaved brilliantly. She was calm, she knew her rights, and the prick police officers refused to even look at the law she was presenting them (doesn't surprise me as they seem to like to make it up). I hope she does sue them.

The sad thing is there was probably a battered wife or a mugging victim who didn't get an audience with police after their attack because they're too busy implementing 1984 in Sainsbury's. Awful. I'm genuinely terrified with the way the world is going.

And shame on those of you who think this is OK.

I thought she behaved brilliantly

the woman behaved like a pugnacious, belligerent ball of antagonism, reveling in the drama she had created

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows your posts are always full of histrionics and hyperbole, but I can't deny they do provide some entertainment

I saw something similar at Sainsbury's the other day - they were turning away people if there were more than one adult in a group, only one could go in. But one of the pairs was a pair of single people in a support bubble, they still only allowed one of them in. But if you are in two households you still need to go shopping for both households, so was this actually the right approach? Both women would have had to go shopping separately anyway (as there is no requirement or expectation a support bubble will combine all their shopping activities).

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

and I think the argument was the poor staff being exposed to a shop full of non mask wearers.

I saw it too I think. One argument was for the shop staff, but I think another one was that exposing people who can't wear a mask to other people who can't wear a mask was unfair and increased their risk.

You really couldn’t make it up....

@JinglingHellsBells DH was a bit anti mask wearing, he did it but moaned a bucket full, until his last hospital admission where he had to wear an oxygen mask for 48hrs straight ( not allowed to get out of bed, had to pee in a bottle ), he rarely goes to the shop now and always wears a mask if out.

Look, my GP surgery won't even give shielding letters to those waiting for letters from public health Wales so they can stay at home from work. They don't have the time or resources.

This week I (as did everyone else living in the property I suspect everyone got sent one covered by my health board) got sent a covid update saying do not contact your GP surgery unless it is an emergency. Letters are not being provided for sheilding, you must wait and if you don't get one you don't qualify. Do not contact us about vaccines. Do not contact us about long standing conditions. There are no routine appointments.

It might be more sensible for supermarkets to talk to people who can’t wear masks when they’re in store and point them towards using click and collect for future shops. If you can’t wear a mask you can minimise your time in store instead.

And also totally agree with the poster upthread who mentioned women being targeted. DP has had his fair share of hassle but I’ve no doubt whatsoever that had it been petite 5ft 3in me who was the non mask-wearer it would have been ten times worse.

I do wear a mask, but sadly it hasn’t prevented all confrontation with the mask police - in my case it’s been people demanding on several occasions to know why my toddler isn’t wearing one too.

[quote TempsPerdu]@JinglingHellsBells I’m getting slightly bored now with posting this repeatedly on various threads, but trigeminal neuralgia is the answer you’re looking for. And no, DP can’t wear a visor.[/quote]
There are two of you though. There are people in much trickier situations such as lone parents, the elderly and vulnerable who are having to either use online shopping or be exposed to the risk of non mask wearers. Is there a reason you are unable to do the shopping?

If you read her twitter account she is an anti-masker. She is doing it for the wrong g reasons I believe.
It does little to help the cause for those who truly can't wear masks.
PS TL:DR

Anyone who is medically exempt should be wearing the sunflower lanyard or carrying proof at all times. In lots of European countries you're supposed to have photo id on you every time you leave your home, after all.