We teach our kids not to lie..

[MrsKingfisher]

Then we lie to them about Father Christmas! I've often wondered why children are taught (by most parents) that telling lies isn't a good thing yet parents the world over tell their kids a whopper then brush over it when they find out Santa isn't actually real.

I do love the whole Father Christmas ideal but why is it ok to tell lies to children when we try to teach them the opposite?

If you want 15+ years of opinions, I'm sure most of the threads from over the years will still be there. At least a few each year...

It's a daft argument & certainly not original.

It's up to you whether you go along with the magic/fun/fantasy or not.

So you've never heard of a white lie OP?

Ah yes, the famous, amazing and acceptable white lie. Every other lie is a black/yellow/red lie, therefore not good.

I don't have an answer for this but it's not something I have ever cared about. I managed to raise kids who don't tell lies and enjoyed Christmas.

"Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies."

If lying to your child makes you feel uncomfortable, the above is a perfect balance, and what I was told as a child. And yet stockings still mysteriously appeared at my door until I left home .

We don't go in for FC bringing anything other than small stocking fillers and our DC have never had their behaviour checked by 'Santa won't come unless you're good.' But it is still magical. Cling onto those years, they are over so fast.

And really, truly, does anyone resent their parents for creating the magic of FC?

If FC is a lie then so is every fictional story ever told.
Talking animals, fairies, wizards, hobbits, fairy tales and nursery rhymes. They’re not true but you’d be an idiot to call them all lies.
Can’t you tell the difference?

@Hovverry

If FC is a lie then so is every fictional story ever told. Talking animals, fairies, wizards, hobbits, fairy tales and nursery rhymes. They’re not true but you’d be an idiot to call them all lies. Can’t you tell the difference?

Those stories are told as stories. That’s the difference.

They’re not true but you’d be an idiot to call them all lies.
Can’t you tell the difference?

Those stories are told as stories. That’s the difference.

The irony!

Do you clarify before any fiction story that it isn't real to prevent being seen as lying? There are little ones that believe cartoon characters or characters in books are real without anyone having to tell them they are and many more happy to act like they're real for the fun of the activities around them. Father Christmas is pretty much the same.

We can tell cultural stories and enact rituals around them to give them meaning, pleasure, connection, and interest without saying they're the truth. St George didn't actually slay a dragon, but in years past I've taken my children to town to see it being performed and hear it discussed as an actual event. No one viewed that as lying - it's community spirit and a bit of fun - but every year we have several posts on the lie of Father Christmas as if we aren't surrounded by fiction and various stories and ideals that are debatable in their objective reality.

I mean, when discussing the police, do you tell a young child they're there to protect them - that they're 'helper people' as I often see in books for small kids or do you discuss the history of police as protectors of the wealthy against poor workers and the many cases of police brutality, police cover-ups, and deaths in police custody so you're not lying to them.

I don't do Christmas, so obviously I don't 'lie' about Father Christmas, so I've no skin in that one specifically. Outside when parents pressure their children to still 'believe' for the parent's own idea of how things should be, I can see value in the story and the rituals around it even if I don't take part. We do do tooth pixies for their teeth - their paternal grandmother made them tooth pixies dolls. I never tell them it's real, it's just a fun thing we do, and as they've gotten older we've talked about different myths and rituals around losing teeth from around the world. The representation in Hogfather is one of their favourites, we have the book and they watch the TV version every year and if anything, knowing lots of people enjoy something makes them enjoy it even more knowing it's a bit of fantasy.

Telling the absolute truth is also totally unacceptable in many circumstances. Eg:

Someone says "Do you like my new dress?"

Would you answer:
"No, it doesn't suit you at all, the fabric is nasty, it's outdated, the colour is horrible and it makes you look like a fat lump."
or:
"Oh how nice, you look lovely in it."

?

Aside from the Santa issue I don’t teach my children not to lie, I don’t think many parents do.

I teach my children to be kind, where that doesn’t conflict with their comfort and to be respectful.

Sometimes untruths are necessary to help the world go round “this food is tasty”; “your wedding dress is beautiful”; “it won’t hurt a bit”.

Social lies (for want of a better term) are also a cultural thing. Some cultures find the British level of social lying to be dreadfully blunt - others think we beat around the bush far too much and never say what we mean. It’s a really interesting part of culture, or at least I think it is.

I'm so glad you weren't my mother.

I can't think of one single person who resents the 'lie' of Santa.

@LindaEllen

I'm so glad you weren't my mother.

I can't think of one single person who resents the 'lie' of Santa.

Nice thing to say to someone.

I can't think of one single person who resents the 'lie' of Santa.

These threads always have a people who say this and a handful of people who say differently. I never resented the story of Santa, but I did absolutely resent the 'if you don't believe, you won't get anything' lie and pressure to not discuss the truth with my parents, particularly my mother, because of her idea of what a good Christmas was.

And now I don't celebrate Christmas at all. I hated the pageantry and pressure of it so much that any fun I might have had I can't remember. I just remember having to play my role in their display, nothing about it felt like it had anything to do with me so I stopped bothering with it as a teenager.

Cultural stories and traditions have a lot of value when there is meaning for everyone and they change as we and those around us change, when they help us enjoy being part of a community. There is no more pressure to say it's real than any other story we might tell our children, and those who do bring in that pressure ruin the joy and meaning of social stories. It's not in whether anyone think it's true, it's the connection, pleasure, meaning, and variety in the life that we always fill with fantasies.

Most people don't teach their kids not to lie in all situations. If grandma asks them 'did you like that hand made jumper I gave you for Christmas?' you would expect them to lie and say 'yes granny I liked it a lot'. I don't know anyone who regrets their parents lying to them about Father Christmas. If anything I regret that my mum told me the truth when I was 6, I was hugely disapointed and wished I could have kept believing for longer.

Because this... www.goodreads.com/quotes/66591-all-right-said-susan-i-m-not-stupid-you-re-saying-humans

There is little white lies and dangerous lies , father xmas is not a dangerous lie

I see it all as a white lie, not a lie.

For me, the issue is people carrying the Father Christmas story on too long. I have a friend who's 11 and 13 year old (apparently) still believe.

Parents should be gently encouraging children to grow up. I have cringed at photos on FB of 12 years olds visiting Santa. Utterly ridiculous.

It's cute and exciting for 5- year olds, not so much after 8...

**I see it all as a white lie, not a lie.

For me, the issue is people carrying the Father Christmas story on too long. I have a friend who's 11 and 13 year old (apparently) still believe.

Parents should be gently encouraging children to grow up. I have cringed at photos on FB of 12 years olds visiting Santa. Utterly ridiculous.

It's cute and exciting for 5- year olds, not so much after 8...**

Why? What's wrong with a child using their imagination past 8? Why are people so keen for children to grow up and live in the real world? Imagination is an important part of development too
There is real magic in the air at Christmas time, for me as I explained to my 11 year old. That magic comes from people doing good things for others at Christmas time with no expectations back. Also I enjoy bringing my teen to Santa and they enjoy it too. It's normally an outdoor santa here with a show of lights, it's a lovely way to kick start festivities.

And also no one teaches their child not to lie. If we all told the truth all of the time the world would be a harsh place.

I’ve not been scared from being lied to about Father Christmas and it hasn’t made me a compulsive liar. It’s magical.

It's no different to pretending to be pirates or fairies or whatever. Imaginary games are good for game development.

Also lying isn't innately bad, and I don't teach my dc that it is.

It's no different to pretending to be pirates or fairies or whatever. Imaginary games are good for game development
It isn't different for some parents because they treat father christmas as a nice festive story.

It is absolutely different for parents who come up with endless lies to prove Santa's existence, who go on social media asking how they're meant to respond to totally reasonable childhood questions, how they can extend the santa belief, and the numerous posters on a recent thread about santa who seemed to genuinely believe that the magic of Christmas will be gone forever if their child finds out. Every year there's threads where people are worried about their 11 year old going up to secondary school believing in santa. I highly doubt these parents spend endless time and energy convincing their children that fairies exist.

I don't think a little magical moment when children are small won't hurt the children. It will make children appreciate fantasy and be more creative, imo.
I do think if the parents are so worried about little white lies, that may do more damage to the children. They will learn to do that too, when you learn to be polite to others.