We teach our kids not to lie..

[MrsKingfisher]

Then we lie to them about Father Christmas! I've often wondered why children are taught (by most parents) that telling lies isn't a good thing yet parents the world over tell their kids a whopper then brush over it when they find out Santa isn't actually real.

I do love the whole Father Christmas ideal but why is it ok to tell lies to children when we try to teach them the opposite?

It's not a lie. It's like a fairytale. Do you not read or let kids watch shows where animals talk? They can't, so that is lying. What about stories where children do things they couldn't possibly do in real life (from solving mysteries like the Famous Five to magic like Harry Potter)? Children can't actually do that so it's a lie. In fact, most fiction/myth/storytelling relies on the willing suspension of disbelief. And doing so encourages imagination and joy and creativity. In my opinion anyway. If you write off everything that can't really happen then you'd be left with a pretty joyless childhood.

@LST

Many could say the same thing about religion?

The difference with that is the parents believe it is true. Nobody believes Father Christmas is true in the way that the story is told.

It's like a fairytale. Do you not read or let kids watch shows where animals talk?

They’re not told as real events.

Like others its more a play pretend rather than a lie.

If we didnt add a bit of "magic" to everyday life it would be a bit boring. "No DD I will not pretend that you dressing up as a doctor and kissing my boo boo better fixes everything" "unicorns arent real so leave them out of the story" "no such thing as witches so we can cut this play session short, thanks"

Obviously you get over the top parents who will do anything to keep children believing, but most parents I know join in on the father christmas fun, then when the children find out they stop and go on with their lives. I'm sure someone will be here shortly saying how devastated they were having been lied to for so long etc but rarely do you meet a moral lacking adult who says "well it all started with the fat man in the red suit"

Interesting point, that we DO teach our kids to lie in certain circumstances.

I don't see FC as a lie, more as a nice story/ let's pretend but then I also ever made a big thing about him and certainly never used the "naughty list" as a threat, that's wrong.

But really op do what you want with your kids but dont spoil what others want to do with theirs.

Pretending to talk to your child’s imaginary friend is a lie , roll play is a lie . Santa is a magical experience for children. Let children be children .

My DD 3 thinks fairies are real thanks to Ben and Holly's little Kingdom. I dont see the need yet to say anything, I let her enjoy telling me stories about what her fairies got up to.

@CinnamonTeaForMe

It's not a lie. It's like a fairytale. Do you not read or let kids watch shows where animals talk? They can't, so that is lying. What about stories where children do things they couldn't possibly do in real life (from solving mysteries like the Famous Five to magic like Harry Potter)? Children can't actually do that so it's a lie. In fact, most fiction/myth/storytelling relies on the willing suspension of disbelief. And doing so encourages imagination and joy and creativity. In my opinion anyway. If you write off everything that can't really happen then you'd be left with a pretty joyless childhood.

Yes but I don’t do things to try and make my child believe that animals can actually talk. It isn’t about not doing anything imaginative! It isn’t a suspension of disbelief when adults are lying to you and going out of their way to create an illusion to preserve the lie.

You can do all the things mentioned (have a magical Christmas, enjoy the fairy taleness of Father Christmas etc) without the utter insistence that Father Christmas is real.

agree with this. We hunt for Gruffalo on our walks, even though they don't exist. I wouldn't tell the kids that Gruffalo do actually exist, or lie if they asked, but nor do I find it necessary to point out that they're fictional while we're having fun pretending

I agree. Children know this is pretend though.

This is more how we treat the idea of Father Christmas.

My mum told me to always tell my friend's parents that I really liked their house.

That way I always got invited back and she got told what a charming daughter she'd raised. But I think my mum really told me to because she'd been very poor indeed when the older ones were younger, so she thought it was a nice thing to say to people who might be self conscious and harmless even if they aren't.

We never made Christmas all about Santa. Seen others do it, using it as discipline pretty much all year round and then wonder when it backfires.

We told ours that many people believe in the tale that Santa is the delivery guy. Up to them then if they choose to believe. The other aspect is that I didn’t want them not thanking others for gifts or wondering why some get less or not what they asked for etc. Christmas magic can be had without a load of made up stuff.

Never did the Easter bunny, they knew we hid the eggs and bought the gifts.

@TildaTurnip I totally disagree. There are loads of instances where we act as though something is real with our kids - going to Disneyland I don't go around saying "that's not really Mickey Mouse/a princess/a castle - it's people lying to you!" I let them believe in the magic and enjoy it. When I play with my kids I don't say "look, DS, cars can't actually talk and drive on their own" - I just join in. When they went to the pantomine last year I didn't say "of course he can see that Aladdin is behind him! He's lying when he says he can't!". And unless you go through each book/film with your child pointing out what is and what isn't real, you are letting them believe a lie. My grandparents used to take me to the woods as a child and we'd explore all around looking for fairies- they'd totally engage in the game too: were they lying?

I think teaching kids that things are either "true" or a "lie" is a real shame. There's definitely space for a bit of wonder and pretend. I firmly believed in santa and fairies as a child and I look back on that time very fondly- I thoroughly enjoyed believing in the magic! I would never take that away from my own dc on the basis that "you shouldn't lie". What a sad way to see life.

Oh for goodness sake OP. It's not a lie. It's a story. A fantasy. Make believe. To add a bit of excitement and magic to the longest darkest, dreariest month of the year. Yes, we get them to believe in him but that's a tradition and there is a history in all cultures of fantasy figures presented to children as 'real' for dramatic effect. It's a normal and natural cultural phenomenon and there are better things to fret about if you want to fret about lies our children are sold by society!

I was always taught that telling lies any lie was completely unacceptable!

Were you though, really? So if, say, a relative had bought you a gift you didn’t like and rather than politely thanking them you’d said something like ‘Oh no, not more shower gel!’, you wouldn’t have been in trouble or at the very least set straight? A certain amount of polite untruthfulness is sometimes necessary to function in our society. My DBro has ASD (the above example was in fact him, he was going through a phase of not showering and his presents had a definite theme that year!) and has had to be taught this explicitly - most people pick it up without even realising it and therefore perhaps don’t recognise it.

Some of you are so joyless

[quote CinnamonTeaForMe]@TildaTurnip I totally disagree. There are loads of instances where we act as though something is real with our kids - going to Disneyland I don't go around saying "that's not really Mickey Mouse/a princess/a castle - it's people lying to you!" I let them believe in the magic and enjoy it. When I play with my kids I don't say "look, DS, cars can't actually talk and drive on their own" - I just join in. When they went to the pantomine last year I didn't say "of course he can see that Aladdin is behind him! He's lying when he says he can't!". And unless you go through each book/film with your child pointing out what is and what isn't real, you are letting them believe a lie. My grandparents used to take me to the woods as a child and we'd explore all around looking for fairies- they'd totally engage in the game too: were they lying?

I think teaching kids that things are either "true" or a "lie" is a real shame. There's definitely space for a bit of wonder and pretend. I firmly believed in santa and fairies as a child and I look back on that time very fondly- I thoroughly enjoyed believing in the magic! I would never take that away from my own dc on the basis that "you shouldn't lie". What a sad way to see life.[/quote]
I don’t go around saying ‘that’s a lie’ ‘that’s a truth’.

I also do not go to any lengths to try and make my child believe in a lie.

Can you really not see the difference?

My grandparents used to take me to the woods as a child and we'd explore all around looking for fairies- they'd totally engage in the game too: were they lying?

This is what my DD is obsessed with at the moment and has searching under the bed for fairies. I dont really know any adult who would think that because now they would have to engage with the lie (rather than letting the child imagination run away with them) its time to stop the fun. No I was right under there telling her I think I saw one. Big fat lie.

Plus I lied as a child and sometimes my DPs would even encourage it that dinner was lovely thank you I love my gift thank you 2 off the top of my head. Most children know the difference between a good lie and a bad one.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

We never made Christmas all about Santa. Seen others do it, using it as discipline pretty much all year round and then wonder when it backfires.

We told ours that many people believe in the tale that Santa is the delivery guy. Up to them then if they choose to believe. The other aspect is that I didn’t want them not thanking others for gifts or wondering why some get less or not what they asked for etc. Christmas magic can be had without a load of made up stuff.

Never did the Easter bunny, they knew we hid the eggs and bought the gifts.

Exactly this. Some posters are trying to make out that those who don’t push the ‘Santa is really line are joyless. Huge difference between sitting a 2 year old down and saying Father Christmas is a lie and not saying it is real.

Some children have to be taught not to be brutally honest. Before DS1's ASD diagnosis, one child commented on DS1's long hair. DS1 commented that the child was fat. Both were true statements. But the rules of society are that not all truths are welcome and some have to be glossed over or euphemised.
DS1 ended up in more trouble because he couldn't appologise for making an honest sratement which he felt had the same honesty as the other child.

We like our children to appologise, and society cares more about the motion of it rather than the honesty of the sentiment.

Fantasy is a good thing. Waterstones is filled with about 2/3s of its content being "lies". Fantasy is escapism or ways of learning about the world. It enriches our lives and is a vital point of human culture. It bonds us together.

@TildaTurnip Hm, kind of but then I assumed either you engage with it / let them believe it or not because you don't want to lie? I thought that was the discussion. Clearly I've misunderstood! Also, I am responding to everyone, not just picking on you - I've realised it may look that way as I tagged you to respond to a point you made then went off on a tangent. Apologies.

I don’t think it’s a binary as you’re suggesting @CinnamonTeaForMe.

You can still have a lot of fun with everyone knowing it is just pretend.

@TildaTurnip

agree with this. We hunt for Gruffalo on our walks, even though they don't exist. I wouldn't tell the kids that Gruffalo do actually exist, or lie if they asked, but nor do I find it necessary to point out that they're fictional while we're having fun pretending

I agree. Children know this is pretend though.

This is more how we treat the idea of Father Christmas.

You'd think they'd know it's pretend but actually what's real and what isn't is quite nuanced and takes a few years of asking and being told, in my experience. I didn't realise that until I taught a class of five year olds and found myself explaining that dinosaurs did exist once but that dragons never did, the narwhal in 'That's not my narwhal' is based on a real animal but the unicorn in, 'That's not my unicorn' is made up... How are they supposed to intuit that the Gruffalo isn't real? They may well believe it is.

I don't intend to tell my DC that Santa is real, but I do say that he'll come down the chimney and fill their stockings, in the same way I tell them that maybe we'll see the Gruffalo if we tiptoe through the trees.

People claiming it's not a lie! Are you quite ok huns?

Go ahead and tell yourself the truth and just admit it's a lie but it's worth it to make things a little more magical for you and the kids.

Don't keep lying to yourself. It's okay, we all lie in one way or the other.

That's the only issue I have. Besides that, live and let live. Who cares what people say to their kids as long as they know not everyone has to do the same thing and we ALL bring magic to our kids in our own way whether we're lying to them or not.

I agree with this, it's playing pretend. However when I was asked out right for the first time if Santa was real, I didn't lie and insist he was?
I agree with you on this. Father Christmas is a nice story and it's playing pretend. Once asked, there is no need to lie or go into a tailspin about how the magic of Christmas is ruined forever if a 9 year old realises the truth. I find the annual 'but what do I say... how to i get past DC asking... can anyone suggest something to create evidence for santa...' posts to be odd.

We used to take DC to the woods to look for fairies. It was th eonly way they would come out for a walk. We used to hide wrapped sweets in the hollows of trees and say the fairies had lfet them. DC had hours of fun making up thank you songs and singing them to the fairies, making them mud and leaf fairy cakes to leave as thank you presents. 15 years later DC adore walking - they are teens who never say no to a family walk. One of them is obsessed with nature and fungi due to all the searching for fairy rings and toadstools, and they both know how to show appreciation for presents. Make believe is a very effective and fun way to encourage children. Lies - the kind to be concerned about - manipulate and control others not help them flourish.