New career, migrating, with kids, in my late 40s - I've got this?

[Anycrispsleft]

Am I biting off more than I can chew here? Please tell me I'm not! I live in Germany as a trailing spouse, not working, I've got nearly 9yo twins, and my career options are limited here. I have a science degree and a varied and odd work history, and it would be difficult for me to get into any sort of professional job here, where my language skills are just OK, and it's not really the done thing to change career, nor is it particularly easy to work if you have a family, as childcare is sparse here where we live and school finishes at 1pm!

I am seriously thinking about a move back to my native Glasgow. DH would stay here, as he has a good job that he wouldn't be able to do in Scotland (although he would have the option to work freelance in coming years, when he's closer to retirement maybe - he is 47, I'm 44.) I would go and do the PGDE with a view to becoming a chemistry teacher in Glasgow. We would be in a position to buy a house in a nice area of Glasgow (posher than I grew up in anyway!) and would have the money for a mother's help and a cleaner, so like, it would be quite a nice life. We would aim to be back in Germany/Switzerland during most of the holidays so that the kids would still see a lot of DH. We would aim to do the move in a year and a half when the kids are finished primary school here (aged 10) to minimise the disruption for them. DH and I are quite excited about the prospect of doing this - DH would use the opportunity to move to his native Switzerland, which was out of our reach cost wise when we arrived, but he could afford to buy a flat there now, and both of us are looking forward to being on home turf after many years of travelling around for jobs. We sort of got stranded in Germany when the kids were little - DH got made redundant in the UK and we went where he could get work, I was grateful at the time that we had somewhere nice to settle as the kids were so small, but it is very quiet here and now that the kids are old enough to be mobile it would be a fantastic opportunity for me to move from being a bit of a spare wheel here with few job prospects and little to do, to having a decent professional career, back in my home country where I know how things work, I feel more confident, I can really contribute to society etc (here I'm not even allowed to give blood, as they exclude people who lived in the UK during the BSE outbreak!) I feel the kids - girls - will have a lot better example too, not just me working, but the area of Germany we live in is quite conservative and as I say it is common for mothers not to work. The move wouldn't exclude them from once studying or working in Germany, as we all have Swiss citizenship - there's plenty of places here that are great for working families, just not this corner of the country.

Now that I've typed all that out it feels like an easy decision, but when I wake up at 3 in the morning I think, god, can I do this? Teaching in Scotland is a nicer prospect than England, but still no picnic - I have a few friends who teach, and I'm told to expect a 50 hour week minimum, more to start with. It would just be me, I don't have any family left in Glasgow really, and I wouldn't have that sort of mutual playdate network that I have here now. It would be a huge change for the kids - not only changing home and school, but changing school language, and also they would see less of DH and much less of me. DD2 has ADHD and has till now relied a bit on me being able to help her with schoolwork (although potentially that will be easier, as her English is much better than her German). I'm also painfully aware that job opportunities are better in Germany than they are in Scotland for people although possibly not for women, depending.

Christ that was long. Thank you if you managed to read this far! I just wanted to ask if anyone has done this sort of thing, do you have any advice, does it sound doable? Am I crazy for considering this? Should I just go for it? Any thoughts gratefully received

I'm placemarking this. Will return later but just to say (excluding the teaching degree) I did something similar.

I recognise your name! You were on the thread of the lady in her 50s who is doing something similar I think? I really wanted to post about my situation on that thread but I didn't want to derail. Thank you!

I'm sure you can do this. Will you and your DH not miss each other? Would there be a Plan B of moving somewhere in Switz/ Germany that has an international school where you could teach in English?

Otherwise... to get a place at the secondary school of your choice you might need to apply 11 months in advance. Ditto with applying for your pgce course.

Will you have family help nearby to help with childcare?

Thank you! You're right, I would need to look into the schools situation. I think it is a bit less cutthroat than London where we lived before, and we will be there 2 years before they start secondary school, so worst case scenario they end up at a random primary school but we will be in good time for the secondary school.

There are a couple of international schools around Basel and Zurich, it's definitely the right area to be in, so that would be an option. It was one of my regrets from our short notice move in 2014, that if I had known we were going abroad I would have done the PGCE in England rather than making the career moves that I did (I had a made a career change to a very secure but totally non-migratable job in the civil service about 5 years before). The international schools will take you with a PGCE/PGDE but the Swiss teaching qualification is 2 years and you need basically native level (C2) German so it wasn't much of an option to do it here. I would be very nervous about spending x months studying German to get the C2, then 2 years training, then trying to get a job here... whereas, as you say, it would be an additional option if we wanted to come back from Scotland, I could just apply and see how I got on, no risk.

No I don't have any family that could help, really - there's a few cousins dotted about that it would be nice to make contact with, but I don't have any closer family. We don't have that here either really, although DH grew up nearby - there's BIL and his family in a pinch, but my inlaws retired to Hungary. I could buy help in Scotland though! Oh god, and Tesco deliveries. I miss Tesco deliveries so much.

I hate to say this.....

Teaching is not the career for an older person with 2 children mainly on their own. Don’t even go there is my advice.

Your children will be ignored
You will be stressed
There aren’t enough hours in the day
You will end up with an inexperienced pushy 20 something as your line manager.
Teaching is unbelievably horrible at the moment.
It’s a job for a young person.

Sorry to be negative, but most teachers will agree

Emoji are you in England or Scotland? I hear (from a mate who has worked at both) that the hours are considerably longer in England - but it's no picnic in Scotland either.

I know what you're saying, but I just don't have that many options.

I’m in England. I think Scotland may be easier, but l don’t know. Most teachers in their 50’s have either left, gone part time or retired early.

I don’t see the point in moving the girls if you’re too busy to see them/ spend meaningful time together, especially if one has additional needs. Sorry.
I understand your desire to come home though, especially with all the Brexit shite that’s looming.

I did similar with 1 DC10 as a single parent. My marriage had just broken up and somehow my EXDH agreed with me that a move would be best for DC. Did a PGCE but didn't end up teaching in mainstream school. 10 was a really good age to move. DC did the last year of primary, I can see now I couldn't have done it so easily later.

The school terms would be busy, but I would have all the same holidays as them in Scotland, plus I would be able to so my lesson planning and so on at home, so I could at least be around. And I'm not sure if DD2 would suffer or benefit from the move. It's quite tough doing everything in her second language (English is definitely their better language) and when we were having her assessed my ears got sore listening to how substandard her German vocabulary and grammar were, to the point that I seriously considered just taking them both back home there and then. I don't know. My big issue with the ADHD is whether it will be easy to get support in Scotland, but tbh she doesn't really need any adjustments in school, and we can get a private prescription for her medication if necessary.

@passthepoutine thank you so much for replying. What do you do now?

What would you have found harder if you'd done it later, do you think? Was it about your son? I am a bit nervous about all the after school care and all that dropping out at age 12.

Emoji, thanks for the further reply - can I ask what people do when they leave? Do they change job entirely or is there work available in, say, tutoring?

I will pm you as it's all complicated!!

Quite a few leave for a lower paid but less stressful job.

Maybe you should put this in the Staffroom topic?

How will you all spend time with your DH during the holidays if he’s living in a one-bed flat in Switzerland?

I’m usually all for big exciting life changes, but this one sounds horrible (to me). Your family will be all split up, your kids will have to start over again, you’ll be stressed and busy with all the responsibility of settling the kids in, plus studying, plus an entirely new and known to be stressful career, plus no social life without babysitters (you can’t leave 11year-olds alone for too long). Meanwhile, your DH will be living a single lifestyle in a swanky city. No thanks!

Sorry - I reread and you don’t say it’s a one-bed flat.

I will ask there Emoji, thank you! I did ask on Scotnet and got one very nice answer, but it is quite quiet over there.

Macbook, our plan is that DH will get a 2 or 3 bedroom flat, not in the centre of town but maybe IDK if you know Switzerland, but in Rheinfelden or thereabouts? So there would be space for all of us.

I appreciate what you're saying about the Glasgow plan but compare it to here. I have no social life here: I know a few people but folk here are really homebodies and they're all from here, nobody is looking to make friends at this age really. There's an expat community in Basel but see to be totally honest with you, I'm embarrassed by my situation, just stuck doing nothing, and I have avoided the expat world for fear of meeting someone I knew when I was a chemist, because I think they would pity me in my current situation, really. We have this massive house (world's tiniest violin, right?) that takes ages to clean, ditto the garden, the kids finish school at 1pm and I spend the rest of the day it seems cooking and picking up after them. We watch a film, eat some dinner, and then go to bed. Rinse and repeat for 5 years.
If I went to Glasgow we would be Windswept and Interesting (in the words of the great Billy Connolly ) and I would have a small terraced house with a cleaner, after school club and actual ready meals (they're not a thing in Germany). DH would Skype the kids in the evening and chat to them while I worked. The terms would be busy but we would have the holidays, and the kids would see me being confident and chatting to people and holding down a responsible job instead of cleaning the house, doing the shopping, and talking to the neighbours in my German that is good on paper but never really gets fluent because I just don't talk to enough people. It was lockdown that really brought this home to me - lots of people had it very hard and I don't want to do that down, but just realising that for a lot of others, the life that they have been enduring this year is basically my normal life, and I am so bored and depressed by it. Sorry Macbook I don't mean to bend your ear about this, you only posted on my thread, I'm grateful - this is really good, it's helping me get all the issues out into the open. I've just trudged along for so long like this. I feel like a stone has dropped off me, I can actually look forward to the future a wee bit.

What's the main motivation? Your career? That you and DH don't really enjoy living in Germany and both want to move to your respective home countries? Or that you're concerned about DD2's language skills and the potential impact on her education?

I live abroad myself so do get the feeling like a fish out of water, but having experienced a commuting marriage and DC in a different country from their dad, I really would not recommend. Honest answer is that I don't think splitting the family up is likely to be a great answer to any of the issues you mention. If it's mainly about your career and you currently have quite a lot of time on your hands, would you have the option of doing some intensive language classes and retraining locally, given that you'd have to retrain in Scotland anyway?

Also, it sounds like DH is a high earner. Why not make more use of that? You say your house is too big for you to keep on top of cleaning and that school hours limit your professional possibilities. Why not get a cleaner and an au pair or childminder/babysitter to cover school pick-ups to allow you to focus on working if that's what you want to do?

I would also totally dismiss the worries about being an example to your DDs. My DM was highly educated SAHM, and all of her DC are well educated and professionally successful. It was amazing to have her at home, and I actually credit a lot of my educational and professional success to the fact that she was at home and had the time to support us so fully.

I’m glad you replied! I was worried I’d totally pissed on your chips!

A lot of your motivation seems to be around changing how other people see you. You talk about not seeing expats where you are because you’re ashamed of not being a scientist, and you talk about the good points of your kids seeing you working.

Is this more that you don’t like who you are at the moment?

Please avoid the natural tendency to romanticise things. Terraced houses are tiny (I’ve lived in loads), with room sizes around 12’ x 12’. They’re often draughty too. You’ll not have many options to make new friends via your DC if they’re going straight into secondary, as there’s no school run and the kids don’t want you near them within sight of their friends. 😂 There’s no after-school care in most secondary schools either (certainly in England, maybe Scotland is better). And ready meals are bad for you! Loads of salt and sugar unless you pay a fortune for the expensive M&S healthy ones; you won’t want your DC to eat them.

Is there no way you can improve your self esteem and confidence without taking such a drastic step? Is there nothing you could do in Germany or a less expensive part of Switzerland that’d make you feel productive, confident and proud? And keep you with your DH?

I split from my DH when I was 39, with young kids. I stayed in the house as a single mum and had so much fun, but I had a raft of friends that I’d met at DS’s infant school, had a ridiculously well-paying WFH job, loads of tax credit help, and every other weekend to myself. Then I moved us all 30 miles to my hometown when DS was due to start secondary. Even though it’s my hometown and I could buy my own house, I made hardly any friends, felt isolated, and never like I really fitted in. I met and married my new DH and it’s better now but I wish I’d stayed where I was. This might be colouring my advice to you! 😆 Your experience might be joyous. But from the outside it feels a bit like you’re using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Again — I’m sounding like the world’s whingiest woman and feel free to tell me to eff off!

I'm a teacher, same age, just divorced. I wouldn't move away if I had a nice husband. Your leaving the door open for the wolves to come in. Sorry.

Not sure where in Germany you are but most scientific institutes speak English in Germany, I have friends working there who do not speak German, everything even the boring paperwork is in English. Scientific journals are in English too and most universities have native English speakers to check grammar etc before sending fir publication. Lab techs often can work school hours in my experience too.

It’s clear that living as you are in Germany isn’t working for you, OP, but while it’s clear you need to reinvent your life and to focus on a new career, I think your plan is going to make your life very difficult, retraining, working in a famously difficult and stressful field as a single parent, and it lets your DH off the hook entirely, with his bachelor life in his home country.

Can I ask how it was decided that he would not be accompanying you and your daughters to Scotland? You followed him to Germany and made enormous sacrifices fo his career, and this is precisely why he has a good job and has high earning capacity. Regardless, he owes you one.

And before you ask, DH and I have both done it for one another more than once.

Look a bit more at different sorts of schools. My cousin got a job at a boarding school post divorce. Accommodation was provided, she was part of a community, and her DC were able to attend the school, and did very well. Or private tutorial colleges. Private schools have longer holidays, though term times are more intense.

Honestly, I’d be hurt and upset if my DH was excited at the thought of our kids and I moving away to a different country. I’m all for couples having separate interests, but separate countries would definitely be pushing it for me.