Parent help please?? Nursery diagnosing DD

[SleepDeprived2018]

I don’t know if anyone has been in this postion and has any advice or suggestions ? I will try not to drip feed. My DD is two she attends nursery 3.5 days a week. She doesn’t talk – she does make noises babbles . She started her current nursery in the summer as her previous nursery closed down due to covid. She has started biting other children and staff – she does this multiple times a day and they have now told me that it has become a really big issue and that they think she has ‘SEN issues’ . She doesn’t bite at home – she has in the past but this is multiple times daily at nursery. I asked why they think this means SEN could it not be that she is frustrated that she cant yet communicate as she isn’t speaking - they feel it is more than this. I have taken her to audiology she passed. We are waiting for speech and language to asses her at nursery . I called to speak to nursery to ask for more info and anything I could do to help . I asked what she was like in nursery if there was any pattern to her behaviour does she have any friends or inteact much with children – they said no she avoids children and said this isn’t normal at her age. They said she only enjoys sensory play and will not partake in anything else (water play,playdough,silk scarfs etc) at home she likes to play with dolls and trains etc but they said no she never does this in nursery.
She said the biting is becoming so much of an issue they may have to ask her to leave the nursery .
I don’t know what to do . im out of my mind with stress – nursery are going to refer her to paediatrics via two year check.
Can anyone tell me of any kind of similar experiences they have had??
The nursery manager said to me on Monday ‘I have a lot of experience of SEN so I know whats happening here!’ I was shocked as shes obviously not qualified to say this – I asked ‘ are you saying you think dd has SEN ?’ she said ‘I am yes’ I said sorry so you are saying she has SEN? She said yes – my hsband was 3m away by the car so he came over I said can you repeat that for my husband please so you just said you believe DD has SEN? She said no I never said that! Husband heard her say this 3 times so strange that she then denied it - I think she knew that was beyond her scope. I totally understand expressing concerns and communicating but I feel she did over step the mark there.

What can I do to help my DD?

Not sure nursery have dealt with this in the best way; however, I actually think it is a good thing they have flagged up concerns. To many nurseries don't and children arrive at school and early intervention could have assisted.

Has your daughter had her 2 year check with HV yet?

@BlueStarRose thanks for replying - I totally agree with you i just think it’s unprofessional the way she has done it.

No - it was cancelled because of covid but nursery asked if they could do the two year check and they have last week x

Honestly I think the best way you can help your DD is to listen and understand what the nursery are saying to you. They are trying to get you on board with obtaining support for her, they're not trying to offend you.

How long do you have to wait for the S and L assessment? If it's a while it might be worth asking your GP for a paeds referral given the lack of language development and possible behavioural issues? (I say possible because of course they could be down to frustration at not being able to communicate.)

There might be something else at play here though and as the pp said early intervention is hugely helpful.

I can do why your upset OP I would be too. When did your DD turn 2? I think if your DD doesn’t interact with other children at nursery there definitely sounds like there is an issue.

I think by 2 children usually are talking too.

They're not diagnosing her. They're giving you their opinion based on experience. With kindness, you need to listen.
Get Pediatrician and Speech Therapy advice. First step though is to discuss with nursery a plan around the biting; how are they managing it?
One of mine was a scratcher, always scratching kids at nursery. Nursery had a specific written plan around this including me keeping her nails very short (minimise harm if she did scratch someone) and them keeping a very close eye on her and when they could see she was getting overwhelmed they ask her to count to 5 or distract her to another activity.
She never scratched at home. She did it at nursery because she was in sensory overload. We have since seen an Occupational Therapist and she copes well now. No more scratching.

Sorry if that sounded snippy, it wasnt meant to. I know from persoanl experience that hearing such a suggestion for the first time can make you feel defensive.

I agree, take the support being offered here. If your DD does have SEN then early intervention could make a huge difference to her life. Before nursery suggested it did you have any thoughts that she may have SEN?

I work in a nursery and sometimes it's glaringly obvious from the start that a child has ASN. The teacher will approach parents and suggest they follow up what we've observed. We also liaise with health visitors. An experienced teacher won't be able to give a diagnosis but will definitely know how to spot issues. It can be hard though as parents often don't want to hear it.

You sound very defensive. You need to look at this objectively, the nursery has not "diagnosed " your child, they have expressed an opinion, one that sounds like it worth listening to and following up on.
If your child does have some SEN then the sooner you get her help the better.
It is very hard to accept that your child may have additional needs, I know, I have a child with severe learning difficulties and autism.

Having SEN isn’t a diagnosis though, they’re not saying they know what the issue is. It’s completely clear that she currently has significant additional needs when compared to most children at nursery and that’s all SEN means. It sounds like there hasn’t been great communication between you and nursery though, if you didn’t know she didn’t have friends until you called them. The best thing you can do is work with them to try and get your daughter the support she needs.

If this is an experienced nursery manager then I’m sure she had cared for many children with undiagnosed SEN over the years. I don’t think she overstepped the mark at all, you need to listen and take on her advice. Of course it isn’t nice to hear that your child is having problems but she is giving her opinion and offering you help and support.

I am not quite sure what you understand by SEN, OP. SEN simply stands for Special Educational Needs.

Your dd is not speaking at an age where other children are speaking and this is making her frustrated. Surely this is a Special Educational Need? It means the nursery will need to help her to express herself in other ways so she doesn't get so frustrated. What's wrong with that as a definition? It's not a slur or anything: it expresses that she needs support.

I expect you are thinking of autism, and that is perhaps one possibility. But there are plenty of SENs out there. (For an older child, dyslexia would count as an SEN). What matters is that your dd gets the best conditions for her.

It's good that you're getting referred to speech and language because I think no words at two is a cause for concern. I believe speech delay on its own is a SEN so the nursery manager may not necessarily have been saying any more than that. However if she is very experienced she should be able to implement some strategies to help with the biting.

@CabinClose puts it better than me: Having SEN isn’t a diagnosis though, they’re not saying they know what the issue is. It’s completely clear that she currently has significant additional needs when compared to most children at nursery and that’s all SEN means.

I promise i am fully on board with what they want to do i reached out to them for help initially- i am listening and i called today to speak to her keyworker (she currently doesnt have one)
I am not being deffensive at the prospect of any issues. I just feel like its not been dealt with well.
Whats strange to me is she seems like a totally different child at nursery. She doesnt bite at home. She enjoys company - she loves to play and interact with her cousins/friends at home when covid allows such things.
She turned two in September @hunniHun2
I want desperately to help her but nursery had no plans or suggestions for me other than wait for refferals to go through.

@Shakirasma it didnt sound snippy i really appreciate your reply.

The nursery definitely need to be dealing with the biting better.

My little one used to bite at this age. I spoke to the SEN lead there as it was becoming common and wanted advice.

She reassured that it was not something they would ask parents to remove a child for a this point. There were plenty of steps and methods they can try.

Like you mine only did it at nursery. The SEN informed me, it was a nursery issue. How can I be expected to stop my child biting when I am not present. She observed my child and felt it was a boredom issue and worked with the team to ward of the main triggers with my child and to support positive behaviour.

She grew out of it soon enough.

It's understandable if they are raising concerns of SEN, they will have a lot of experience spotting these things but they need to be doing more to support you as a parent. They seem to be focusing on the negatives.

I’m a bit confused as to why you’re upset with the nursery worker and why you made them repeat it 3 times?

They are a professional who have given you their
Professional advice and judgment- this is their job.

You can be upset with what they have said but not that they have said it

Nursery have been absolutely fundamental in my DC getting the assessments and things that they need. I had some suspicions but nursery confirmed these, did necessary observations, assessments, adjustments and reassessments and added so much more weight to the referrals that were made.

They've not diagnosed your DD with anything, they've identified behaviours that need to be looked at further.

While the nursery manager's communication style might not be the best, I think you probably need to consider what they are saying. It's clear your daughter is struggling at nursery and needs extra support. It looks like they are trying to get that help. Getting that support early on in nursery can make all the difference.

Whats strange to me is she seems like a totally different child at nursery. She doesnt bite at home. She enjoys company - she loves to play and interact with her cousins/friends at home when covid allows such things.

This isn't really strange. No doubt her cousins and friends who know her well are able to make adaptations to her needs and may be treating her as a much younger child: she does not get frustrated because she is not expected to do something she can't. If she does have sensory issues, it is also likely she gets far less overloaded in a much less busy home environment.

I want desperately to help her but nursery had no plans or suggestions for me other than wait for refferals to go through.

They may feel the need for guidance from a specialist so they don't do the wrong thing.

I also work in early years

It sounds like the manager has not handled this in the best way but if your dd is biting multiple times they likely have multiple parents complaining, threatening to remove their children and report to Ofsted.

They also may feel dd needs 1-1 supervision to minimise the biting and be struggling to provide this.

Its great if you are on board, most of the time the hardest thing for a setting when a child appears to need extra help can be getting the parents on board

As a PP says

With kindness, you need to listen

Listen to the staff... but most of all listen to your daughter.

She is communicating in the only way she can that she cannot cope with nursery.

This may be a temporary situation that may resolve or may be a sign of SEN. In either case you do need to try and process what she and the nursery are telling you, however painful, and you and your husband need to acknowledge that together, move forward and then focus on her needs (engage with SALT etc.)

Most importantly, can you take her out of nursery altogether? Could you find a childminder or a nanny in a home environment and less children?

She really sounds like she cannot cope with a nursery environment. This is no good for her development, and if you put yourself in her place, must be terrifying.

Theres no reason they nursery should have support plans or behaviour plans to support her while you wait for further assessments.

If they’re not actively doing anything to help her now I’d ask why. Might it be they do have things in place but just have communicated it well to you.

It’s a shame the conversation you had couldn’t have happened in a better way. More private and time to properly share information would have been better for you no doubt.

Also as above if the nursery won’t/ can’t manage I agree at looking at other options for the time being.

My friends son had a terrible time for a while in his nursery. Cried literally all day and was really distressed. They took him out for 6 months and started him elsewhere and he has settled and is managed really well. Think it was linked to anxiety and he is just going through ASD diagnosis now.