Where do you stand with your DC hitting back if they have been hit first?

[Allwhiteeverythin]

DS is now on a warning, any other fights and he will be on a fixed term exclusion,

He’s had two fights this academic term. Both times he didn’t throw the first punch. Witnessed and on CCTV. He’s very “alpha” and seen as a target for other boys wanting to prove themselves (this is from a teacher). He is not being bullied, very popular kid, no worries around that.

I always said that to DS. Unfortunately he was far from alpha and got picked on. When I found out he was being physically bullied by a girl in his class I changed my view. The bully was dealt with by the teacher on that occasion but afterwards I gave him "permission" to defend himself.

However your DS has obviously fought back and perhaps needs to learn restraint. Alpha male types will always get challenged and when he gets older he will need to know how to talk his way out of conflict.

Do you believe that violence is ever a good solution?

There’s actual self defence in a completely unprovoked attack which is fine. Then there’s going beyond that into escalating verbal conflict instead of walking away, fighting back to maintain social status or punish the person who threw the first punch and generally just inviting or initiating trouble, while technically not throwing the first punch. So it depends on the situation I think.

I told mine to hit back if they were hit first. They never did though which was annoying.

As a parent I do understand why people think to teach "fight back" is a good idea - and it really isn't a terrible lesson to defend yourself. The problem is, it's only ever works in theory but in practice there's so many consequences.

As a teacher we really really cannot condone hitting back. Violence is violence - and we can't say punishment is conditional on the order of violence. It just sets a dangerous precedent. I know it must be frustrating, I get frustrated when it happens, but I don't think the defender is a bad person. They're usually, like your son, just someone capable of looking after themselves and misjudged the situation. I hope the pastoral team are supporting your son OP, suspension aside. If you don't know, ask the school what their plan is.

I tell my sons to hit back harder unless its a girl or someone smaller than them.

@Iloveknockknockjokes so why do other boys deserve a punch but nots girls?

Because they started it and it's a fair fight. Boys are stronger than girls.

Interesting point about deescalating verbally before it gets physical.

He’s quite happy to laugh it off, throw an insult back, walk away when it’s verbal but the second someone puts a hand on him he is fighting back. In this case he actually didn’t react to the boy grabbing him by his shirt and just laughed, so then the boy obviously felt he needed to escalate as he was being laughed at and hit DS. DS hit him back twice and the boy started crying. Teacher comes round the corner and separated them, luckily on CCTV that DS had only reacted after he’d been hit, but as it was the second time he’ll now be on fixed term exclusion if it happens again

I tell them never be the one to start it, but also be warned that the person finishing is most likely to be caught.

The person starting picks their moment to reduce the chances of being caught. Lashing out in response is more likely to have bad timing and be unsubtle.

I'd rather that people know that they mess around with them at their peril, and not to endure months of being of trying to be nice before they trigger.

If walking away or reporting it works, great. But there are people out there that don't give in the nice way.

How old is your son op?

I’d want to look more into why the fights are happening. How are they escalating, what is happening before and after the fights.

I have made it clear to my young children they can hit back if that is the only option to keep them safe (my son never would because it’s not in his nature but I’m sure my daughter would). However I speak to them about other ways to manage conflict first and tell them to make clear loud statements such as “stop touching me” etc where others are doing wrong so people/teachers can clearly hear what is happening.

Does your son have other ways of managing conflict before hitting back? Hitting back in some circumstance might be more dangerous than walking away.

When you say hitting what do you mean? Giving another child a hard shove away when they try to hit you is different than punching them until they are on the ground...so I think context is important too.

I do hope you manage to get it sorted with school. It must be scary for you both. Are they making any suggestions about how to manage the issue?

Escalating the violence is not self-defense.

People have killed others by hitting back, and been prosecuted for it. You're familiar with so-called "one punch killings", yes?

What you describe is not a good pattern of behaviour to have at any time, but least of all upon reaching adulthood / the age of criminal responsibility.

What are the school doing to prevent other children hitting your DS? Honestly is their only solution to tell your DS “don’t hit back” cos that really isn’t good enough?

I don't know how old your DS is but my biggest fear when mine were older teens was them being picked on in a bar. A friend's DS had all his teeth knocked out in an unprovoked bar fight.
They need to learn how to walk away.

DS is 14. Yes he punched to the face after he was punched to the face.

Boy grabbed his shirt
Boy punched him
DS punched him and then punched again as boy was swinging back at him.
Boy walked backwards and started crying.
DS didn’t go back after him after it was obvious he wasn’t going to hit him again.

There was a similar occurrence in September, which started with another boy throwing food at DS. DS ignored. Boy called him a “pussy hole” , DS laughed, boy ran at him and rugby tackled him. DS punched him enough times to get him off him.

School are aware it is a pecking order thing but as above agree that violence is violence irregardless of who hits first.

@Allwhiteeverythin but what are the school actually doing about the situation. I wouldn’t be happy with the school going to exclusions without doing something to address the underlying issue with those involved.

How about learning techniques to deflect attack? I'm sure that many martial arts would cover this in-depth but here's a starting point:

Posted too soon:

www.wikihow.com/Defend-a-Punch

Has the added advantage of making the punch thrower look like an even bigger tit when he misses!

No to violence no matter what.

My kids know that there are only two acceptable reasons for violence.

1. To defend yourself.
2. To defend someone else.

If if they have to use force to get away from someone who is hurting them then I will back them 100%. If they hot someone when they didn't have to as revenge then they are as bad, and would be justifiably sanctioned equally, as the original aggressor.

We had a spate of deaths here from a single punch to the head.

The consequences for your son if he hits too hard in the wrong spot will be life-long.

As an ‘alpha’ (this does not have positive connotations btw) who is already involved in violent altercations he needs to work on better management of conflict right now.

He stands to lose everything over a single punch.

I was always taught to hit back. And I absolutely would

No. As a parent and a teacher I have never taught my boys to hit back. The potential for escalation and serious consequences is too much. Violence isn’t the answer.

I think your DS needs to learn this. - and learn that “alpha male” isn’t a good thing or a compliment. It makes him sound Neanderthal .

I've always told dd that if she is hit, I will back her, she has my permission to hit back.
People can say walk away, tell the teacher, that don't always work , sometimes defending yourself is all that works

@TheRuleofStix

No. As a parent and a teacher I have never taught my boys to hit back. The potential for escalation and serious consequences is too much. Violence isn’t the answer.

I think your DS needs to learn this. - and learn that “alpha male” isn’t a good thing or a compliment. It makes him sound Neanderthal .

Agree. Unless your son is dragging hairy Mammoths back to your cave in Milton Keynes then you need to stop referring to him as an Alpha Male. It’s never a good thing and it seems you are excusing his violence. Young men provoke each other. He needs to learn to descalate.