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Original poster

Where do you stand with your DC hitting back if they have been hit first?

52 replies

Allwhiteeverythin · 20/11/2020 21:09

DS is now on a warning, any other fights and he will be on a fixed term exclusion,

He’s had two fights this academic term. Both times he didn’t throw the first punch. Witnessed and on CCTV. He’s very “alpha” and seen as a target for other boys wanting to prove themselves (this is from a teacher). He is not being bullied, very popular kid, no worries around that.

OP posts:
poplin · 21/11/2020 04:33

I never say to hit back and would be really disappointed if either of mine got into a fight.

I'm not sure what Alpha means but it doesn't sound complimentary. Two fights in a term is a lot and I would be exploring why he seems to be getting caught up in these and other strategies to avoid becoming the broiled or it will not end well.

GalaxyCookieCrumble · 21/11/2020 04:34

He is allowed to legally defend himself with reasonable force, I had the same situation with my son who was getting bullied despite being a brown belt in MMA. He did not hit back because the school told him he would get into trouble, I was told my his MMA instructors by law he has a legal right too, hence this same discussion with the school.

ChristmasArmadillo · 21/11/2020 04:41

I will always stand behind my DC for finishing an altercation someone else started unprovoked.

PhilCornwall1 · 21/11/2020 06:25

I've always said to hit back. If someone hit me (and as long as I want knocked out), I'd certainly go back at them to make sure they didn't follow up with anything else.

bodhi1982 · 21/11/2020 10:04

I'm surprised he's being threatened with this exclusion when he's technically defending himself - what happened to the boys that started it ? I agree it's worth trying to talk your way out of getting physical but as soon as someone lays a hand on you then it's fair game . And can actually teach the other kids a lesson that some people won't just stand there and take being assaulted

Tolleshunt · 21/11/2020 10:16

I’d be very unhappy with any school which was threatening my DC with an exclusion on the basis of two unprovoked incidents in which he defended himself, both of which were on their watch.

What on earth are they doing to prevent him being attacked? What has happened to the aggressive parties? It seems like they are blindly looking at number of incidents, and wilfully closing their eyes to culpability for starting hostilities. Not good enough, and I’d be challenging their stance.

And what’s their solution for what your son should do if he’s provoked? Given he’s already been trying to defuse? If he walks away and they follow him and hit him from behind, then what? It’s a natural and normal reflex to hit back if we’re hit.

SnuggyBuggy · 21/11/2020 10:22

Ideally I'd want them to tell a teacher but if the teachers aren't doing a good enough job to prevent this happening it's the only good option.

CommunistLegoBloc · 21/11/2020 10:26

The way you describe your son, it's like you're proud he's an 'alpha' and can handle himself, to paraphrase...in reality he's just another violent male.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 21/11/2020 11:14

Don't hit girls, don't hit younger kids. Deescalate the situation if you can but if they hit you, hit back harder and don't stop until they do.

MegaClutterSlut · 21/11/2020 11:37

Tbh I always used to say to ds you're only allowed to hit back and make sure its harder just never first after he was repeatedly picked on and hurt as he never fought back at the beginning. The school was useless. A lot of the times he used to punch back and the fight would stop. Its probably going to be an unpopular opnion on here but I absolutely think they should be allowed to defend themselves to a certain extent otherwise they'll be an easy target which ds and found out.

user1471518104 · 21/11/2020 11:43

@Audreyseyebrows

No to violence no matter what.
So even if you are getting your face punched in you just have to accept this until what ? This is idiocy and exactly why society is in the state it's in now.
Stompythedinosaur · 21/11/2020 11:47

I think a lot of people on this thread are confused about the difference between defending yourself (I.e. using force to protect yourself or get away when you have no other option) and hitting back (i.e. hitting in retaliation or revenge for a previous hit). The law (and most school rules) allow for the first but not the second.

It sounds like the op's ds is doing g the second, and is rightfully getting into trouble.

Would everyone think it is ok to "hit back" if your dc got hit on a Monday, and then waiting for the aggressor on the Friday to hit them back? Surely revenge hitting just isn't how we want to teach dc to act?

poplin · 21/11/2020 12:09

I agree with that Stompy and the reason I would never say hit back is because if you do that as an adult, you get prosecuted and that's what the school are teaching here - consequences.

FWIW I work in high risk environments where I have been spat at, pushed, pulled, grabbed, taunted, antagonised, had things thrown at me - deescalation is a skill that goes a long way in keep you safe. I would talk to your DS about ways he can manage situations better and to learn to get out of situations in a different way. Retaliation rarely ends well.

PodgeBod · 21/11/2020 12:10

I would back my son in this situation, OP. If he doesn't fight back then he is just going to have a target on his back for bullies. What are they doing about the boys who hit him?

PodgeBod · 21/11/2020 12:15

Although this challenging the alpha thing doesn't really sit well with me, especially twice in such a short period of time. Are you sure he isn't provoking them at other times, like in the classroom or online, which is then coming to a head at break times?

timeforanewstart · 21/11/2020 12:17

I always told mine walk away if you can if not hit back
Luckily never really had the issue with mine , I think my ds2 has stood his ground a few times biut not actually had to result to hitting .

SociallyDistantPenguin · 21/11/2020 12:18

Your son has been assaulted twice on school property this term and the school are writing it off as 'he's an aplha'.

Ermmm... No.

If he is in another altercation it's because the school has failed in their duty to keep him safe. I know you say it's not bullying, but that doesn't mean the school just get to shrug their shoulders and leave him to it.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 21/11/2020 12:19

For all the people saying kids shouldn't hit back, how easy do you think it would be to stand and take a beating because you've been told not to defend yourself? Hmm. Its human nature to defend yourself.

Absolutely fine to hit back in self defence. I would back my kids up completely if that happened.

I think the school need to look into whats happening before the fighting starts. Is your ds provoking others verbally?

Divebar · 21/11/2020 12:33

There was another thread on this recently and as I posted there I would say the law allows reasonable self defence. Why someone would teach their child “ no violence at any cost” I have no idea. Does that mean if someone was threatening your child or you saw a man beating his partner in the street you would just let it happen because no violence at any cost.
I don’t actually know what you mean by Alpha Male in these circumstances- how do you define that quality in a 14 year old.? I’m also interested in what he was saying in the moments proceeding the fight. I’m wondering if he was being mouthy in some way which might explain why this is happening.

Original poster
Allwhiteeverythin · 21/11/2020 13:13

I’m amazed that so many people would be happy for their child to stand and take a beating without hitting back. What exactly are you teaching your kids? That’s an awful thing to put on your kids.

Deescalation is fine, laughing and saying yeah whatever mate and turning your back, ignoring and walking away, telling people clearly and loudly to get their hands off them. DS has done all of these things.

By alpha (the schools words) I mean he isn’t happy to be a victim. He isn’t going to stand there and take a beating and not stick up for himself. The school have acknowledged some lads are aware he will fight back, they have started with him for whatever reasons, call it boredom, call it wanting the clout of kicking his head in. He’s popular (always a crime on MN).

OP posts:
OffredOfjune · 21/11/2020 13:19

I’m amazed that so many people would be happy for their child to stand and take a beating without hitting back. What exactly are you teaching your kids? That’s an awful thing to put on your kids.

Agreed.

AIMD · 21/11/2020 13:25

@Allwhiteeverythin I used to think I’d be a never hit parent, and I was when my son was tiny. Then I got to see how he was such a timid little thing and watched as he let children grab push and take stuff from him and just stood there any let it happens. He is a people pleaser like Me. Then I realised that actually this is a little boy who is naturally gentle but needs to know it is ok to defend yourself physixally or to let people down if it is in defence or to keep yourself safe.

I’d never tell him to hit back. What I say is if someone is really hurting you and you think the only way to keep yourself safe is to push or hit them, that’s ok and I won’t be angry with you.

My husband was bullied terribly as a teen and it only stopped when he hit one of the bullies back after he took up kick boxing.

My son does martial arts now. Not because I want him to hurt anyone and in fact it’s mainly about respect and defends. However I don’t want a bully to hold threat of violence over him and I want him to be physically prepared to defend himself if that happens.

Thelnebriati · 21/11/2020 13:47

''Self defense is no offense''. Even the law says that much. I don't see how the school can defend its position.

ShedFace · 21/11/2020 14:35

It’s 100% ok to defend yourself if somebody hits you first. I work in a high risk environment and pride myself on my de-escalation skills but in a school yard fight or a group of boys out for the sole purpose of starting something with another group this is never going to work. My father teaches martial arts and always says that violence should be the last resort but someone attempted to mug him last year and you’d better believe he fought back, you cannot allow people to walk all over you in life and I would much rather my child hit back then be left in a heap in the street with zero guarantee that justice will be done through the courts.

squeekums · 22/11/2020 03:05

I’m amazed that so many people would be happy for their child to stand and take a beating without hitting back. What exactly are you teaching your kids? That’s an awful thing to put on your kids.

Agree 100%