Upper, middle, or working class?

[Greycatgingercat]

I was speaking to another parent at DD's nursery and she said that she was upper class. Her husband is a doctor and she does embroidery but mentioned that she also uses dr as her title. She's a lovely lady and we work in similar fields as I run a small business making children's cloths.

I'd never really spoken about class before this, so it prompted me to have a conversation with my mother. I'd consider myself working class but my mother would consider herself middle class, as her father was a head teacher yet she never worked after I was born so after my father left we relied on benefits.

The lady at DD's nursery is originally form Pakistan, but has lived in the UK for 7 years so I'm not sure if it's more of a cultural thing her telling me her class.

What class would you consider yourself as and what do you think makes someone a particular social class?

Money does not buy class, you are not upper class even if you are a multi-millionaire. You can just buy big properties and lots of cars/boats etc.
On the other hand you may be upper class - mostly royalty or landed gentry - but have very little money because you've fallen on hard times.

However, it's possible to be "upper middle class", ie. at the upper end of middle class. Middle class are normally professionals, married well, possibly privately educated (although not always). If you are at the upper end of this you might also have a great deal of wealth, family money, land etc., but not be particularly connected to well-known families...

Tbh I think most mumsnetters are probably middle class, some will be lower middle, others upper middle, but the majority are definitely middle class.

I think the difference is between the US & the UK. The UK's class system has very little to do with money. In the US, you aren't really upper class or even middle class if you DON'T have money. Whereas, it is perfectly possible to be middle class and possibly even upper class (think bankrupt aristos) and poor.

I’m really struggling to imagine this conversation.

‘Hi, fellow school gate parent, I’d just like to introduce myself. I’m upper class, I embroider for a living, my husband is a doctor, so I call myself doctor too! Let’s be friends!’

Those who feel the need to talk about what class they feel they fall in to are certainly not classed as classy, not in my book anyway.

There’s two classes, those that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and are the landed gentry
And the people who work for a living..the working class

My parents had no title or land so I’m working class along with about 98 per cent of the British people.

'I’m really struggling to imagine this conversation.'

Me too

It's mental she uses Dr if she's not a Dr or got a PhD. Also how was this brought up? I just can't imagine any conversation where this would be said not being really awkward! Really odd from her.

I go out to work everyday, therefore am working class. If you don’t work you can’t be working class.

So what does ''classy'' mean?
This term applied to certain people always fascinates me.

@Dowser

There’s two classes, those that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and are the landed gentry And the people who work for a living..the working class

My parents had no title or land so I’m working class along with about 98 per cent of the British people.

Well, that’s bollocks.

What type of housing you live in, or can afford to live in, is a good indicator of class. Also the area

People that believe the class system in this country doesn't matter are delusional. 2 out of 3 people in Boris Johnson cabinet went to private school. (Whereas only 7% of People are privately educated)

Class is a very big thing in Pakistan. She probably has no concept of what upper class in the UK means.

I think there are many ways you can tell someone's class, we make assumptions from what we know. I've never had a conversation about class with anyone but is pretty obvious what class I am. You can usually tell from the first meeting but it's not something I would normally think about tbh

@Tootsietoot
Jeremy Corbyn and Kier Starmer aren't exactly horny-handed sons of toil either

But at least they don't deny it, unlike Emily "Lady Nugee" Thornberry. Bought up in a nice house in a village in Surrey, with only one street of council housing for miles. Her mum was a teacher, a councillor and mayor. Her dad taught international law at the London School of Economics, and was a United Nations Assistant Secretary-General. Yet she makes out she's the equivalent of someone brought up in a post industrial northern slum sink estate.

Then theres the one with the false brummie accent, who inexplicably thinks shouting and swearing must prove how street and down with plebs she is. The list of Labour party fake proles just goes on and on ...

@Oinkypig

I go out to work everyday, therefore am working class. If you don’t work you can’t be working class.

Well that's silly. Some working class people don't work and live on benefits. And working class people do retire eventually. Plus as PPs have said, someone can become very rich (enough not to have to work) and still be working class due to their roots.

Also, the vast majority of middle class people work too, so you can't say "I work therefore I'm working class" - you could be middle class.

Maybe the modern day problems with British society can be explained by people furiously trying to stuff themselves into a class system based on social indicators that no longer exist (or deny the reality of the change).

That and Sam Smith.

IMO the majority of the middle class are actually working class with delusions. If you are working to feed your family you are working class. So like 80% of the population. If someone else is working to feed your family, you are middle class. If the pure accumulation of interest on capital is feeding your family, you are upper class. In my view. The Waitrose-shopping Radio-4-listening "middle classes" in this country are duped into supporting the financial interests of the upper class by thinking we have common cause. We don't.

...Upper class people often DO work. But they don't need to work to eat. They do it for other reasons.

@Flaxmeadow you just make my point stronger. If the class system isn't an issue in this country why the majority of the people in power from the upper middle classes?

What the hell has embroidery got to do with it? I am genuinely perplexed!

If she's collecting her DC from nursery, she's not UC - isn't that's the nanny's job? Do the UC even send their DC to nursery? Isn't 'nursery' for UC in a separate wing of their house?

Her using Dr as her own title makes me cringe for her though, especially in this day and age.

Upper class people often DO work. But they don't need to work to eat. you are confusing wealth with class.

Of course the upper classes send their children to nursery it’s just not state nursery and is probably attached to a very sweet little prep in the majority of cases.

@JoJoSM2

I’m not sure about other caste systems in Pakistan but it’s perfectly possible that she would be considered upper class in her homeland but not here.

Why not here? She could be a Pakistani upper class person.

Just like an upper class English person going abroad doesn’t become another class because they aren’t part of the local system.

Hmmmm. I think I meant - her background may indicate upperclass in her home country whereas a similar background for a British person might not indicate upperclass in the UK. Or maybe I meant, at home she’d be upperclass because of her caste but here, not knowing or understanding the caste system she was born into, we’d judge her class based on her occupation and wealth, which it sounds like are more what UK people would consider middle class.

Obviously a princess is a princess anywhere - but the lower down you go, the more confusing it gets.