Upper, middle, or working class?

[Greycatgingercat]

I was speaking to another parent at DD's nursery and she said that she was upper class. Her husband is a doctor and she does embroidery but mentioned that she also uses dr as her title. She's a lovely lady and we work in similar fields as I run a small business making children's cloths.

I'd never really spoken about class before this, so it prompted me to have a conversation with my mother. I'd consider myself working class but my mother would consider herself middle class, as her father was a head teacher yet she never worked after I was born so after my father left we relied on benefits.

The lady at DD's nursery is originally form Pakistan, but has lived in the UK for 7 years so I'm not sure if it's more of a cultural thing her telling me her class.

What class would you consider yourself as and what do you think makes someone a particular social class?

[weirdstone]

If she’s Pakistani I can believe she’s upper class, and feels no embarrassment about it. I have several Indian and Nigerian friends who are the same. There’s a very fixed social system (which helpfully I now can’t recall the sociological term for) and you’re born into it, and marry within it, and it has nothing to do with financial standing.

If you’re English I think it’s impossible to explain the fluidity. Our next but one queen has lower middle class origins on one side and upper middle class on the other, and her children are upper class but through Prince William they’re also foreign which a lot of Brits would say instantly demotes you .

[weirdstone]

If this lady was talking about being upper class, then she absolutely 100% isn't!!

This old Mumsnet bollocks again.

[Wester]

There is a great class calculator here... Which is a bit of fun I suppose

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

[BoulangerieBabs]

@weirdstone

If she’s Pakistani I can believe she’s upper class, and feels no embarrassment about it. I have several Indian and Nigerian friends who are the same. There’s a very fixed social system (which helpfully I now can’t recall the sociological term for) and you’re born into it, and marry within it, and it has nothing to do with financial standing.

If you’re English I think it’s impossible to explain the fluidity. Our next but one queen has lower middle class origins on one side and upper middle class on the other, and her children are upper class but through Prince William they’re also foreign which a lot of Brits would say instantly demotes you .

Caste system?

[Janegrey333]

Everyone is Elite according to the new classification.

Really, though, whether you are upper middle - or even middle at all - is dependent on being culturally aware and on your parents’ occupation or position in society, amongst other things.

[Janegrey333]

@weirdstone

If this lady was talking about being upper class, then she absolutely 100% isn't!!

This old Mumsnet bollocks again.

Hmm. I think there may be a kernel of truth there.

[WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo]

Caste or class in Pakistan is an awful system used to systematically discriminate against groups of people. Look up the untouchables or watch the bandit queen movie to get an idea of what this woman is talking about. It is used to justify the sexual and physical abuse of people. And give her a big miss as anyone who would support such a system is thoroughly evil.

[NaughtipussMaximus]

Yes, it could definitely be a cultural thing. If she’s a Hindu, for instance, and born into the Brahmin caste, she would be considered upper class (though I believe most upper class Hindus fled to India after partition, and primarily Dalits remain in Pakistan). I’m not sure about other caste systems in Pakistan but it’s perfectly possible that she would be considered upper class in her homeland but not here.

[Janegrey333]

If she’s married to a doctor she’s upper middle.

A medical doctor to be more precise. There are many other types who do not fit the requirements.

[rc22]

I think you have to be aristocracy or royalty to be upper class. I don't know what class I am. Sometimes I think I am middle class and sometimes I think I am working class.

[weirdstone]

I quite enjoy embroidery but it’s the cross stitch kind from a pre-printed cloth which is definitely considered below the salt in certain circles.

[Janegrey333]

@SonjaMorgan

The class system is bollocks. Most of this country is a few paychecks away from losing everything.

That’s utter rubbish.

[joystir59]

I am working class. Father was a factory worker, mum did part time cleaning and retail. I was educated to HND level but do not have a clearly defined profession. I work as a mosaic artist/tutor

[TwoZeroTwoZero]

I've been doing some embroidery over the lockdown!
I'm university educated and am a (supply) teacher and dh was an account manager before lockdown brought redundancy. He's also a deputy director in something else so on paper we seem middle class.

I feel more working class though. My parents had blue collar jobs. I grew up on a council estate and we still live in social housing. We rely on benefits (tax credits and child benefit) and are living hand to mouth. Our dc go to the local state primary school. It really doesn't bother me though.

[WindsorBlues]

My nan always said "if you have to go out to work every day to pay your rent or mortgage your working class no matter if your on a doctors salary or a milkmans wage."

[SonjaMorgan]

@Janegrey333 no it isn't. "40.93% of Brits don’t have enough savings to live for a month without income" and "A third of Brits have less than £600 in savings".

If you look at the median average savings across different age groups none would cover most people's expenditure for more than a few months.

[BoulangerieBabs]

My nan always said "if you have to go out to work every day to pay your rent or mortgage your working class no matter if your on a doctors salary or a milkmans wage."

Your Nan is talking rubbish. Class has nothing to do with how much money you have. I've been an impoverished single parent on benefits, it doesn't take away from the fact I grew up with significant privilege.

[WindsorBlues]

@BoulangerieBabs

My nan always said "if you have to go out to work every day to pay your rent or mortgage your working class no matter if your on a doctors salary or a milkmans wage."

Your Nan is talking rubbish. Class has nothing to do with how much money you have. I've been an impoverished single parent on benefits, it doesn't take away from the fact I grew up with significant privilege.

Ooohhh someone's rather sensitive this morning.

[heathergem]

@Greycatgingercat

I was speaking to another parent at DD's nursery and she said that she was upper class. Her husband is a doctor and she does embroidery but mentioned that she also uses dr as her title. She's a lovely lady and we work in similar fields as I run a small business making children's cloths.

I'd never really spoken about class before this, so it prompted me to have a conversation with my mother. I'd consider myself working class but my mother would consider herself middle class, as her father was a head teacher yet she never worked after I was born so after my father left we relied on benefits.

The lady at DD's nursery is originally form Pakistan, but has lived in the UK for 7 years so I'm not sure if it's more of a cultural thing her telling me her class.

What class would you consider yourself as and what do you think makes someone a particular social class?

If she told you she was upper class then she isn't - the UC wouldn't talk about it. She's trying to be someone to impress you.

[Waitingfirgodot]

She could potentially be upper class in her own culture though. Does she have Begun in her name - I believe that that is sometimes used to indicate nobility, I think confusingly it can also be used just as an ordinary surname too!

[raspberrymuffin]

I'm starting to think not seeing class is equivalent to white people not seeing race: if it doesn't affect your life you've got the option to act like it's not there, but if it does you can't help but see it.

I say this as someone who isn't particularly well off financially but has all the cultural trappings of middle class: I've got the pointless humanities degree, I go for long muddy walks in the countryside, I've read the right books, etc. My team at work is pretty mixed as we deal with buildings so there's a trades route to my role as well as an office route, but our wider department is very heavily populated by middle class professionals. I find it very easy to fit in with the wider department because we have these shared cultural things in common, but I know at least one of my colleagues who followed his dad and brothers in leaving school at 16 and going into a trade feels totally at sea with the senior people in the department. We went out for a nice (naice) meal at Christmas and he was genuinely worried about using the wrong fork - I thought we all knew the 'work your way from the outside in' posh cutlery hack but apparently even that's a middle class thing. Anyway my point is that I didn't consciously notice any of this until a lot of drinks in when he started telling me about it. It hadn't affected me, I hadn't been feeling out of my depth socially, so I hadn't noticed, but there he was wondering if everyone was laughing behind his back over some fucking cutlery.

[BoulangerieBabs]

Ooohhh someone's rather sensitive this morning

What are you talking about?

[x2boys]

If it goes off your parents occupation and standing in society it's even more nonsense an example a good friend of mine is very well educated has a PhD lives in a very nice area with her partner who also has a PHD and their two children they live a very comfortable to all extents and purposes middle class existence ,her parents however had very ordinary jobs , factory's and shops etc ,no education beyond school and social housing,by contrast I had a fairly comfortable childhood ,in a large semi detached house large garden nice foreign holidays with parents in reasonably well paid jobs ,but for various reasons am now in social housing on a low income ,it would be ridiculous to suggest I'm middle class and my friend is working class ,it's all nonsense.

[AdultHumanFemale]

Yep, Raspberry.

[x2boys]

Intents and purposes*