Grandson keeps hurting my children

[Doimatter]

My daughter is staying with me at the moment due to fleeing domestic violence. She was given emgency accommodation by council. But this is a room in a shared house. Sharing kitchen/bathroom. Daughter has personality disorder and can't cope with being in a room like that with her son. With the combination of sharing, mental health and her son in that situation is to hard.

Anyway her son is coming up 3. My two youngest are 4 and 5. 5 year olds has special needs so a bit younger than his actual age.

Grandson is 3 in a month. He constantly hurts my younger two we are talking at least 8 times a day some times more. He bites them pinches them. Slaps them. They end up with teeth marks. And other marks. This morning he managed to pinch inside 4 year olds mouth and make him bleed. ( words of 4 year old) so I'm not 100% if it was a pinch. But he did hurt him and make his mouth bleed.

We give him time out. Tell him no. That's naughty. Have been firm with him told him of. Tried praising his good behaviour. Spend positive time with him. But still he does it . After time out to says sorry. Then within 5 mins hes doing it again.

Just don't know what to do. I told daughter if it does not stop shes gonna have to take him to stay in the room. But I honestly don't want to do that.

Could he have autism? You might find strategies for coping if you think about how he is communicating his needs. So he might be getting sensory input from hitting other children, or he might find everything overwhelming and need to be in a quieter safe area. I recommend a book called "out of sync child" for some suitable activities that would help with these, whilst you are waiting for help from "professionals". But you need some help from outside.
Reward charts and consequences aren't going to make much difference.
Structure, and tailored activities and calm might though

Firstly well done you for supporting your DD. Secondly it sounds normal behaviour for a 2 year old whose had their life turned upside down by it plus what he's seen. My DD was that age when I left her dad for similar reasons and she was so naughty for about 6 months after it; hitting, kicking, biting especially at nursery. It did stop after awhile and clear consistent same-page punishments from both me and Nursery, DD's 6 now and can still get like that occasionally but it's now usually aimed at me and is much less frequent (she does have some diagnosed SN so that might be why and your GS might be fine so please don't take what I say as gospel).

I hope you can get DD some support, SS were brilliant for us so don't see it as a bad thing to get them involved. And the GP and/or women's aid/victim support.

I would supervise at all times until it stops. I hope your own boys are ok too, it's a big change for them.

I'm sure with Covid interventions from social workers and Pediatricians and Child psychologists are next to impossible but I think he needs that type of assistance.,I'm not advocating he's thrown onto the street homeless but he did have a place to live with his mother and the two small children in their home need protection

Agree with pps, you've got a confused, angry, disrupted toddler who has been around some very scary things, has been moved out of his home, has a mum with challenges piled on top of her having to deal with all the stress and trauma of being abused, and he'll be picking up on her feelings too.

Very close supervision and a very strong daily routine with everything predictable may help him feel safer and calmer. Lots of exercise and time outside running around may help him feel calmer and let go of some of the stress and disorganisation. Don't let him get into situations when he can take his feelings out on the other children, break that habit, even if it means for a few weeks you have to be glued to him. Seeing if you can get vouchers for an early preschool or nursery place would be brilliant support for you and him if you can find a good one.

BoggledBudgie, Op isn't saying she is going to. She is in a difficult situation that she cares for everyone, but need some help to find a solution so she doesn't have to. She says herself that she doesn't want to, but cannot see the other choice to protect her children, so she asked for help of people here. And she is getting great advice from many. That was the purpose of this thread.

Please please stop with the punishment of a clearly traumatised child. We went through this with my GS now age 5 and coming out of the other side. He needs some one to one therapy and a referral through the health visitor or nursery. Yes hurting other children is extremely upsetting but this little boy has witnessed some awful things and then had to deal with your daughter leaving that situation and moving to yours with all that entails. My GS developed separation anxiety and it came out in violence. They can't control themselves at this age. If you read up on how trauma affects the development of the brain in his age group it may help you to understand a bit that he needs help to learn how to process his emotions safely. When you punish him its just driving those emotions deeper. I really hope you can get some counselling for them both. My GS now has play therapy set up for him at school and a one to one. He is absolutely 100% different to what he was a year ago and believe me it was at the stage we couldn't take him anywhere. Hes also sensitive to noise and changes in routine so thats worth looking into. Xxx

This is blunt but is your daughter capable of effectively parenting her son, especially if he traumatised by the dv she experienced. Also you mentioned a personality disorder - this could possibly be inherited by him. You need to seek professional advice and help, and also consider what you would do if social services step in to remove parental responsibility from her.

This is a worst case scenario but it's worth thinking through all the different ramifications that could occur. He sounds like a damaged child, it's certainly not his fault but he needs therapeutic care to try to help his future.

If he has witnessed DV, he will be traumatized. He won't be able to express that, and I think alot of people underestimate the huge impact DV can have on the children who witnessed it, particularly very young children and so that does need to be taken into consideration. The children should not be left alone together unsupervised at all. Your daughters mental health problems need to be brought up with whoever deals with her housing situation - obviously shared housing is not suitable for her. She might neee supporting letters from her GP/crisis team to support that. I think if they find out that your daughter isn't using the temporary accomodation then they can say that she doesn't need it and that will make her a lower priority for getting herself a home. If the council decide that she can stay with you then they won't help her.

All of the children in this situation are very young and your grandson is only 2, almost 3 but thats incredibly young. It can be a normal phase for his age, and it is tough but he likely will grow out of it in the mean time consistency, supervision and not giving him lots of attention after the fact (showing lots of sympathy for the hurt child rather than lots of telling him that he was naughty) are all things that might help.

Some real monsters on this thread. This child has likely witnessed domestic abuse if not been a victim himself. He has then moved home (sounds like twice) to circumstances where they are people living there other than their own immediate family. He will have also noticed that one of the adults that used to be around no longer is. So much of what he knew is different now. All before his 3rd birthday. And some of use are encouraging that older children be encouraged to give him a shove, close him in a different room or be forced to move home again?! Christ. OP it sounds terribly hard but step back a moment and remember the view of the world from his perspective.

I'm surprised the statutory agencies aren't already involved, given the background of domestic violence when a child is present. Also the fact that your daughter has mental health issues too. I would start the ball rolling immediately to get that dear child some help. Maybe a phone call to your daughter's GP initially. As others have said Social Services also can be extremely helpful in these circumstances and signpost appropriate help for your dear grandson. A very difficult situation for you all and you need help. Your daughter might benefit from parenting classes too, but unfortunately they won't be happening due to Covid. She's fortunate to have your support though.

personality disorder, autism? What? Major disruption , short of sleep and routine for starters.

It is definitely possible to get support and therapy for traumatised children at the minute. With a personality disorder, the chances are the daughter struggles with consistent, loving parenting. Are social services already involved? This boy needs more support.

The impacts of early trauma can be really significant. A young child who has suffered trauma needs intensive support from adults, sometimes they also need the support of professionals.

Is his mum receiving adequate support? Is she at home in the day, or is she at work?

Things like theraplay can be very useful, they can be done by adults at home, they don’t have to be done by a professional. Like adults children who have suffered trauma often end up ‘stuck’ in the survival response (brain stem function) which can cause some very unpleasant behaviours.

Traumatised children often react well to therapeutic/attachment parenting, which can be very difficult at times, I know its something I don’t always stick to. Good techniques etc can often be found in adoption specific resources, I know your grandchild isn’t adopted, but the techniques are for any child who has suffered trauma.

The other children do of course need protecting, their welfare is equally as important.

My son is adopted, he was 7 months old when he came to us.
But his birth Mum had two children (age 2 and 5) before him who witnessed domestic violence. The (just) 2 year old was generally okay, but the 5 year old was very very violent. She saw DV every day, saw her Dad punching her Mum and it was normal to her.
SS spent a very long time working with her to overcome this. She was a child, still is, but the punching/hitting/biting/kicking was normal in her household. You learn from the behaviours around you.
Luckily she has now been adopted and is doing well, but it took 2-3 years of counselling for this to happen. She was an angry, frightened, scared little girl, her Mum and Dad (as bad as they were) were taken away from her, her brother was taken from her (SS decided it was best for her to not be adopted with him). Imagine how scared and alone she must have felt, and her only way to express that was to lash out.
Granted your GS is younger, but he has seen DV being an every day normal part of his life for almost 3 years, he doesn't know it's wrong, and needs help and support.
You both need to ask for help, if SS have been involved your daughter needs to ask them for help. And you don't let him be on his own with the other children. And as hard as it is, shouting at him or punishing him won't change his behaviour.

Social services generally aren't interested in parents leaving a relationship with DV as long as they are satisfied that there is no chance of them going back to the violent partner. They are also not interested in parents with mental health issues unless it is putting the child/ren at risk - I say this as someone with very significant mental health problems, I've had numerous GPs and MH nurses reassure me that there is no need for SS involvement.

Thank you. I have not written everything in my op as it would be to long. But I have done hell of alot fir my daughter. And it would never be a case of just kicking them out. Its finding something that can work.

You should really get professional help.

Sounds so hard for your all.

From the perspective of your 2 yr old GC he has witnessed DV throughout his short life, his mother has now left him with you. So everything he once new has changed. He needs lots of love and positive praise and lots of supervision. His mother needs to be with him every day too. Feel sorry for all of you but that poor wee child needs alot of support to undo the damage caused by growing up in a DV situation.

Hi its difficult to reply to all. But lots of advice has been simlar. And I will definitely take it all on board and give it a go and make sure daughter is 100% on the same page.

Him having 121 with his mum is a good idea as well I will put that to her as well.

I gave already said to her to take her son out for the whole day once a week so my children can have a peaceful day as well. We did thus a couple days ago and it was a lovely day. And he had a good day with his mum to

Social services etc are already involved.

We are with the kids all the time . But it only needs for me to go to the toilet and hes hurt one of them. Or even when we are in the same room they are playing nicely and a hit or a bite will come out if no where.

I do agree that alot if children this age do this and I think its a combination of typical things kids do at this age and then what he's seen etc.

I think there is such a lack of empathy in this thread from so many directions - for the little boy, but also for OP. This is a heartbreaking position and it's awful to accuse her of wanting to 'chuck them out', etc. It isn't possible to balance everyone's needs here and both the DGS and the DD need specialist help, very urgently - I'm not sure that it's appropriate to use 'normal' discipline techniques on a clearly traumatised child, but obviously he can't just be allowed to hurt other children. I think you need to call social services and the council housing services and make it clear that you will not give up until a better solution is found - it doesn't have to be a great solution, but a liveable one - for your daughter's housing. She can't live in this shared house, but she also can't live with you. She also needs significant further support - if they move to somewhere just the two of them it removes the risk of the toddler hurting others, but it won't fix the issue that this clearly stems from trauma, it'll just mask it.

His mum needs to be on him 100% too.

So if you go to the toilet, she’s there watching him and intervening if necessary.

This is going to be hard to fix.

He can't be unsupervised. If the adult goes to the loo he has to go too. If he's unhappy with that then explain why 'x and y are sad because you hurt them, when you can play nicely then we don't have to do that.'

You both have children in the mix so need to share the supervision. A day out is a great idea.

I agree with pp. you should get her hv and social workers if she has one of not get one and get them to push for her to get a place of her own.

Could your grandson go to nursery so the time you have to supervise him for is shorter? This may pass quickly.