Grandson keeps hurting my children

[Doimatter]

My daughter is staying with me at the moment due to fleeing domestic violence. She was given emgency accommodation by council. But this is a room in a shared house. Sharing kitchen/bathroom. Daughter has personality disorder and can't cope with being in a room like that with her son. With the combination of sharing, mental health and her son in that situation is to hard.

Anyway her son is coming up 3. My two youngest are 4 and 5. 5 year olds has special needs so a bit younger than his actual age.

Grandson is 3 in a month. He constantly hurts my younger two we are talking at least 8 times a day some times more. He bites them pinches them. Slaps them. They end up with teeth marks. And other marks. This morning he managed to pinch inside 4 year olds mouth and make him bleed. ( words of 4 year old) so I'm not 100% if it was a pinch. But he did hurt him and make his mouth bleed.

We give him time out. Tell him no. That's naughty. Have been firm with him told him of. Tried praising his good behaviour. Spend positive time with him. But still he does it . After time out to says sorry. Then within 5 mins hes doing it again.

Just don't know what to do. I told daughter if it does not stop shes gonna have to take him to stay in the room. But I honestly don't want to do that.

Obviously, as pp have said, you have to be right there, all the time, to physically prevent him from getting to your children

Re the accomodation, if they are found to be not living there, won't that affect rehousing options?

The first thing is for your daughter to seek some help for both herself and her son via the GP or health visitor. He will be suffering with trauma if he has witnessed violence and is probably re-enacting what he has seen. In the meantime keep your children safe by never leaving them all together unsupervised. Have kind hands and feet as a rule which cannot be broken. Set out a clear consequence such as "thinking time" if he breaks the rule. Model how to play nicely. Use a reward chart to acknowledge his successes. Ask your daughter to spend some time each day 1:1 with him where he gets lots of positive interaction and attention. She could use that time to read a book about "kind hands". I think your daughter could really use your support right now as she will have suffered damage from her relationship. Creating a loving, safe and secure environment for them both will do wonders to heal but do ensure your other children are kept safe.

I think you all need support as a family. Talk to your health visitor and social worker if your daughter has an assigned social worker.

And yes, don't leave the children alone together.

Your daughter needs to be with her son at all times unless he is sleeping and she needs to stop this happening. Until things improve, you cannot provide childcare for her while your children are there.

If she moves out, she will have to look after him on her own, at least this way, she gets your emotional support, a safe space and help with cooking and cleaning etc.

I can only suggest much tighter supervision. Could you and your daughter tag team so one of you is always right with him and he can’t hurt anyone.

^^This.

I had three kids close togther in age and supervsion was exhausting but being there stopping things before they start is often doable with distraction and intervention and very close supervision- plus getting them out and about to burn off energy - which is bloody hard at the minute.

I think longer term your DD and GS need external help and better accomodation options. If he coming up to 3 will he get a nursery place soon - would that help has HV suggested anything?

Can he get the 2 year old funding for nursery?

Oh that sounds like such an incredibly difficult situation for you all.

For a traumatised child, time out can be unhelpful as it can trigger memories of times needs were unmet, times of being excluded, times when they were on the other side of the room hearing and witnessing the violence.

This isn’t just a naughty boy who needs to learn how to behave, and traditional discipline may make things worse rather than better.

Of course he can’t be allowed to keep on hurting your children, that’s completely unacceptable for them and for him. But I think as an emergency first step, he needs to be with you or his mum at all times. Not to say that he can’t play with the others, but that he needs to be in reach of an adult at all times. Time in, rather than time out.

Try looking up Therapeutic Parenting. It’s a strategy used by adopters and foster carers and kinship carers for children who have experienced trauma. It’s a bit of a back to front way of doing things if your other children have responded to traditional discipline and parenting. But it does work!

The National Association on Therapeutic Parenting could be a good starting point. Or anything by Brian Post

Sorry I got the age of the four year old wrong. Not 4 months.

I suggest, though I'm sure it is very very difficult, imposing some sort of structure. Get outdoors for as long as you can. Back home, something to eat. ipads, whatever.
Anything to get through this challenging time.
This is a short term idea btw.

It sounds like she shouldn't be leaving him unattended.

Just here to agree that total helicopter parenting is the way forward - it’s the only thing that helps.
My eldest was like this with his brother never having seen any DV, it isn’t always a consequence of witnessing abuse. My DS has additional needs, but friends with NT children have had similar issues.
Keep him within reach at all times, and take him with you when you have to leave the room. It is a HUGE pain, but it’s the best way to break the habit of hurting others, and to keep others safe.
Your tactics will have to depend on your GS’s personality, but i found that giving a huge amount of attention to the injured person and ZERO attention to DS was the best tactic. He was craving negative attention. It was a hard time, but did eventually improve. Your DD will need to be in 100% agreement with you on how to deal with this or move elsewhere, its impossible if another adult undermines the process.
Hope it gets better soon for all.

Where is your daughter, OP? Is she going to work, or is she at home with her son and you? If shes at home, she really needs to be with her son all the time, no matter how difficult her own MH may make this.

Does she have a social worker or a support worker?

*to add - obviously praise any positive behaviour! He needs to learn how to get positive attention instead of negative.

Hi op is he seeing anyone such as a child psychologist? Sounds like he needs some help. This who they are there for so please do get in touch I think gp can refer?

I agree with most others that you need to really closely supervise to prevent this happening. I'm not sure about time out for a little kid that has been through so much. But I'd suggest getting some expert help from health visitor or other source. Hope it goes ok!

@BoggledBudgie My son never did those things to other children so you're 1) overgeneralizing 2) over judgmental 3) over harsh and need to 4) get over yourself. This woman's children deserve to be safe and free from physical assaults in their own home

@pastandpresent a 2 year old being thrown out of the only safe home he knows damn well should make you cry.

I'd probably work out a schedule that keeps the kids apart as much as possible till he hopefully settles.

I'm guessing at the moment there isn't a whole host of practical support . The little boy has obviously seen some terrible things and also been moved around a lot which is disorientating and confusing. It sounds like all three of you need more support. I would contact womens aid and see if they know about any support or forums you can access. I would also recommend barnardo as they do a lot of work with children traumatised from abuse and may be able to provide some support. Where you live there mayne other local charities who can provide parenting strategies for you whilst everything locked down with covid. You've done an amazing thing taking in your daughter and family. I hope you can access some support and your grandson gets the help he needs

@Wnikat

The number of people telling you to throw them out is appalling. He's 3. God knows what he's been through. But I do think your daughter has to supervise her child at all times to keep your children safe, as a condition of staying there.

I find that timeouts don't work with my children, so I do time in instead.
www.janetlansbury.com/2016/05/why-timeouts-fail-and-what-to-do-instead/

A lot of children go through a biting and hitting stage. It takes time to teach them not to do it anymore and to find another way of communicating.

OP, please do read this link.

I think your grandson has had terrible experiences instead of a loving childhood, so far, and now he sees your children as rivals for adult attention and affection. He especially will want that from his Mum.

I suggest you and your DD keep him separate from the other children as much as possible, and do lots of playing with him, taking him out etc. without the other two children.

[quote EKGEMS]@BoggledBudgie My son never did those things to other children so you're 1) overgeneralizing 2) over judgmental 3) over harsh and need to 4) get over yourself. This woman's children deserve to be safe and free from physical assaults in their own home [/quote]
Christ, this is a two year old from a home where there has been domestic violence...he could well be traumatised...he needs professional help and support.

No most two year olds don't constantly hurt other children. Yes the occasional scrap over a toy or when over tired but this constant hurting of other children in spite of best efforts can't just be overlooked. Ops daughter is an adult and is therefore responsible for her own child. And OP has a duty to her own younger children to keep them safe. How traumatic for them that they are left vulnerable to being hurt in their own home where they should be safe. It's not working. Social services should be involved to find alternative accommodation.

You could get some old fashioned reins and keep him close to you. Or work in shifts, keeping him at arm's length from the others. Or both.

It isn't his fault, I guess he's copying behaviour he has seen and it's good that he's spending time with you now, learning that it isn't acceptable before he starts school. Your daughter will probably benefit from a period of calm as well.

Talk to social services, explain the issue with your dgs and ask for help/intervention now, to prevent the inevitable problems at school.

Good luck.